1927 Sedan Six wake from hibernation.

Discussions related to motor & gear oils, greases, anti-freezes, etc.
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Nikodaemos
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon May 10, 2021 2:15 pm

1927 Sedan Six wake from hibernation.

Post by Nikodaemos » Tue May 11, 2021 10:51 am

Hello all, just joined here and have my eye on a 1927 Packard sedan with the 6cyl engine. I will be checking it out in person some time next week to ensure there aren't any particular issues that don't show up in pictures. If everything checks out, I will be making the purchase.

Owner says that it still runs, and it has been stored inside. With how thick the dust covering it is with lack of any particular marks, I am guessing that it is more of a "ran when parked" situation and that it has been fairly left untouched and hibernating for well over a decade.

I plan on going through and changing all the fluids, as well as repacking all the grease. Replacing any worn out components such as hoses, tires, tubes, etc. And will have on me a supply of spare parts, ignition, wires, bulbs, fluids, etc. The process is one I am well familiar with in that none of my vehicles would be considered "modern" and that most of them were in similar condition when I bought them.

Though, this is my first Packard and first pre-war vehicle, being that the oldest one I have owned previously is a 64 Galaxie. I follow the idea that if it moves, it needs either oil, grease or bushings, that still leaves the question as to what type? Does anyone have any personal experiences with certain brands or types, as well as what resources I can use to be better prepared to do right by the car, and keep it on the road for many more years to come.

Additionally, what kinds of surprises and particulars can I expect from it? Example, I know that the Model A has a habit of drying out the distributor bushings if not tended to, and have different types of shafts. Do their engines like waterless coolants and are they able to still be reliably driven with it?

I understand that pretty much anything we have now is a massive improvement over what they had back then, so just keeping the right viscosity is basically all that is needed anymore, but one never knows when a random situation will come up where a vehicle or engine simply just doesn't like a thing. I know my Cat engine won't tolerate anything other than Mobile Delvac 15-40, and just doesn't run properly on other brands, even if with the same viscosity.

Much thanks, am looking forward to finally having a Packard as part of my fleet, I have been admiring them for many years and this is a good opportunity.

Prudence
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 1:41 pm

Re: 1927 Sedan Six wake from hibernation.

Post by Prudence » Wed May 12, 2021 9:31 am

Good Morning...You might consider sending a private message to Dave Czirr. He has lots of experience with Packards of that vintage...he has had his 34 since the mid 60's! He will give you good advice...Ernie in Arizona

Au Packard
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: 1927 Sedan Six wake from hibernation.

Post by Au Packard » Fri May 14, 2021 5:46 am

From my experience with Packards of that era they are excellent cars for their time and it might just be one of those rare unmolested gems in excellent condition but such cars are few and far between. More likely it will need a full restoration, count on removing the body for the repair of rust and rotted wood followed by a bare metal respray. Then carefully strip every mechanical part and repair as required, Count on a very expensive engine rebuild along with repair of most other wearable components. Assume that lubrication has generally been neglected for much of its later life, With luck gears in the transmission and rear axle will be useable but all bearings and seals will likely need to be replaced. Brake drums will be worn and brake lining (suitable for mechanical brakes) will need replacing. The starter and generator will likely need expensive attention by an expert. The water pump will be shot, A complete new wiring harness will be needed. All bright ware will need to be nickel plated (Chrome was not used on Packards until 1929 and then only on the outside). The radiator core will very likely need to be replaced.
New tires and tubes will almost certainly be needed. The interior may be useable but if it's not or if you are aiming to get the car as it was when new then allow $20-30 k for all new trim in the correct materials
There will be many other unforeseen costs and with luck some parts will be OK.
If you enjoy the process of bringing an old and tired car back to as it was when new then it will be a most rewarding project that could take a few years if you are retired and work on it full time or much longer if it is a part time project. If you are working on other cars at the same time then it will probably never be finished
When its completely finished and looking and running as it did when new and someone askes the inevitable "what's it worth" the honest answer will be "about half what I have spent" assuming you did most of the work yourself
I base my comments on my restoration of three 1920's Packards over the period from 1976 to 2010. Each was finished before the next was started and I did virtually everything except the upholstery.

Richard Kirkman
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:07 pm

Re: 1927 Sedan Six wake from hibernation.

Post by Richard Kirkman » Sun May 16, 2021 4:29 pm

I think some of "Au Packard's" comments represent a "worst-case scenario", but even so, you should take a long, objective look at the project you are considering. You should also try to think clearly about your own skill level and the amount of time you can give to your project. On the good news side, Packards generally don't require special tools and are easier to work on than, say, a Maserati. One bit of bad news is that the supply of genuine Packard parts has dwindled a bit for the older models, and thus you will spend more time and money finding what you need. You may also end up having some parts made. My comments spring from experience with a Packard 443 which was pretty far gone when we got it, but is now restored.
Despite all the cautions, I can't help hoping you will go ahead with your project and get a lot of enjoyment from it. And don't forget to post some photos along the way!

Nikodaemos
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon May 10, 2021 2:15 pm

Re: 1927 Sedan Six wake from hibernation.

Post by Nikodaemos » Mon May 24, 2021 8:12 am

Much thanks for the heads up. I will be sure to reach out to Dave Czirr for his knowledge. And pardon the long posts, tis a bad habit of mine to over explain.

Plans changed though and a 1930 Standard 8 Sedan 726 came up for sale and am pursuing that. It is a bit of a mixed bag. It has better features than the 27, such as the larger engine, more complete vehicle with better features, but is also a solid step down in overall condition.

The 30 makes a good 10 footer, or parade vehicle, but ABSOLUTELY needs a lot of work to bring it back to where I want it as a reliable driver.

It had a prior bodywork done to stop rust and repaint, and the rust damage was minimal and hasn't returned. Worst was along the inside rear passenger fender where it bolts in.

So, just the typical slap a pretty face on it and call it done. Rest assured that I do not equate nice paint with a good vehicle. Pretty doesn't make it move, or as we say in the trucking community, "chrome don't get you home", heh.

Other than that, it is much as one would expect from a car that is only pulled out on rare occasion for a parade or local show. Seller claims it was formerly a museum car, but that is rarely a good thing for making it a driver since most museums can't afford to keep their vehicles in running condition.

Took a look at it this weekend, couldn't take it on the road but pulled it out of the garage. Started well, no smoke, no unusual sounds. Clutch felt good and car had no issues moving under its own power. Though admittedly it was just a 1st gear crawl, heh.

Interior DESPERATELY needs a good cleaning, but is very serviceable otherwise. Quite musty inside, with plenty of dry fabrics to treat and bring back. I didn't move the curtains since I wanted to have a treatment of some kind on them before I start putting so much motion to the material. Some wear in the correct places, a couple mouse chews, but essentially in keeping with the overall condition of the vehicle. Wood is solid and intact when looking underneath and top is intact, but has started talking about retirement plans, heh.

Mechanicals, well, everything leaks and is wet with a lot of greasy/oily spots all over the chassis and running gear, though nothing activity dripping and nothing alarming or unexpected. Again, very much in keeping with a car with only rare, occasional use and effectively no maintenance otherwise. Coolant is brown with plenty of gunk under the cap, but no evidence of mixing with oil and no evidence of leaks. Oil is comparable, old and dirty, but nothing alarming nor unexpected there either. I have a thermal camera that I used to measure exhaust manifold temps when it started, and while #2 and 3 were a little hotter, the rest was even and overall nothing alarming.

In general, a vehicle that has been neglected, but not abused, kept but not maintained. Nothing important visibly needed replacement and it is well clear of the tipping point between restore or replace, a solid restorer. It makes a great candidate for what I want, and will be a project that spans several years before I can rightfully say it is "complete" ( are they ever? Heh). But, one that with a good bit of planning and work can enjoy out on the roads between bouts of restoration.

It is a 29 sold in 30, hence why it has the Adonis radiator cap and confirmed by the VN plate. Delivered in September 29. Interestingly, my truck was also completed in September, though of 89, and also counts as the following year, 90. Two vehicles, both end of decade September makes, though 60 years apart. Hopefully the Packard will serve me as well as my truck does.

In keeping with my ridiculous habits, I hope to be able to drive it the 150 some miles home under its own power. I will be bringing a large array of fluids, parts, wires, tools, etc with me, giving it all fresh fluids and grease everywhere, as well as going through the brakes, suspension, steering, ignition, cooling systems before leaving the seller. It won't be a total teardown, but a solid going through to inspect for wear and correctness. I will also have a support vehicle with a trailer following in case there are any issues I cannot remedy along the way. I have no intention of breaking it for the sake of pride, heh, but from everything it tells me, it is ready to run after some care. I will make several stops along the way to inspect it carefully, going over things to ensure there aren't any problems, as well as having the support people looking at it while in motion to help reduce the chance of problems as well.

The drive home will also work as a shakedown cruise, to see where the car is at and what things show up while in motion. After getting home, the plan is to go through anything that goes wrong, and tend to anything that prevents it from getting worse. Protect what is there, change out seals to stop leaks and get it ready to handle being driven as often as I can get away with it, heh.

Though this will be my first car anywhere near this era, this is the same way I've bought and brought all my vehicles home, and none have left me on the side of the road then till now.
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Adam
Posts: 1107
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:15 am
Location: lincolnshire, uk

Re: 1927 Sedan Six wake from hibernation.

Post by Adam » Tue May 25, 2021 4:00 am

That is a nice looking car...
"Do not underestimate the English cousin.....they are not as stupid as they look!" - Signor Altabani in The Italian Job.

Prudence
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 1:41 pm

Re: 1927 Sedan Six wake from hibernation.

Post by Prudence » Tue May 25, 2021 7:48 am

Good Morning...If you drive her home...take your time...run about 40...no faster...those parts have not moved much in a long time...stop after a few miles...less than 10 and give her a good look over...feel the brake hubs...see that they are not hot to the touch...stop every half hour, check oil and coolent...look underneath for any gaskets that have failed...rear end...transmission...rear main seal...40 mph was about the normal cruising speed when she was new and she will be used to that speed...easy does it...Ernie in Arizona ;)

Nikodaemos
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon May 10, 2021 2:15 pm

Re: 1927 Sedan Six wake from hibernation.

Post by Nikodaemos » Fri May 28, 2021 4:14 am

Well, that kinda blew up.

Told the guy I was going through the bank several times, and when it came to getting the car appraised, he throws a fit and starts calling me a tire kicker, wasting his time and costing him thousands...in a few more words than that.

I don't see how making a 5 hour drive on my one day off in 3 weeks and going through the loan process makes me that, but guessing it is a situation of accusing others of what he does himself.

I wonder, is there a seller equivalent term for tire kicker? Eesh. Loan was good too, ready to go, just needed the appraisal.

Anybody else want to buy the car so I can buy it off of ya? Heh. I pay what you pay plus expenses and an extra $1,000 for your time. Really don't want to miss out on this one. Bad owner does not make a bad car, heh, it isn't it's fault.

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