1951 200 Part Interchangeability

Discussions related to interchangeability between years and models, and currently available modern sources for parts.
Westside '51 200
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:04 am
Location: Venice, CA

1951 200 Part Interchangeability

Post by Westside '51 200 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:29 am

I just purchased an all original '51 200 - it's unmolested and near 100% complete.

The only items I have discovered so far that are missing are the Crest that goes on the front grill and the gas cap.

The rear deck lid / trunk locking mechanism is non functioning.

I'm new to the Packard world and wonder if these 3 parts are interchangeable with different models / model years and if so which models / years.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

Jason

Howard56
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am

Re: 1951 200 Part Interchangeability

Post by Howard56 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:13 am

Welcome to the world of Packard.

Your 200 is considered a base or junior model and is on the smaller 122 wheelbase compared to senior 127 wheelbase cars so for ease of finding parts, try to stick with junior cars when looking. I would suggest you obtain a reprint service and parts manual from the PAC store or visit http://www.packardinfo.com and view or download the 51-4 manuals to get a better idea of what will interchange. Since you are new to Packard there is a considerable amount of sales and service info you might also be interested in looking thru. All is available for free download.

Having said that, for the most part 51-54 parts will interchange but there are some differences due to model designation and wheelbase along with some running change upgrades that were introduced during production. Generally but not always upgraded parts were still able to fit earlier cars. Mechanical drivetrain parts for senior models such as the Patrician or 400 are typically more robust or larger than those used on junior cars. Midrange models such as the 300 were sort of a mixed bag with junior and senior parts kind of intermixed.
For your trunk lock, in 51 the trunk lock was strengthened and also went to larger bolts in 52. While the later units will probably fit they may be different from what you have and might require a bit of work if the bolts are different.

On the grill crest, 51 did not use the crest and had PACKARD spelled out across the hood. In 52 the hood letters were dropped and the grill crest was added. If you have a 51 with the crest it is possible someone changed the grill casting or could the car be a 52 sold in late 51 and and registered as a 51? 51 vehicle numbers start 24XX-XXXX while 52 will be 25XX-XXXX. Motor numbers start with a J in 51 and a K in 52.

The chrome bezels surrounding the crests are the same 52-4 but while the crests will all fit, the one for 53 only differs from 52 and 54 versions. Finding a used crest in good condition will probably be hard since the plastic cracks and the paint flakes off the back but there have been some repros made from time to time. Kanter or Max Merritt may still have some from a repro batch but if found will set you back $$$. Emblem Magic makes them when orders are sufficient but backlog is long and again, we are talking $$$.

Westside '51 200
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:04 am
Location: Venice, CA

Re: 1951 200 Part Interchangeability

Post by Westside '51 200 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:58 am

HI Howard,

WOW, that's a bunch of great info. Thanks a lot, I certainly appreciate it!

Interesting about the crest being on my 51 considering the numbers on the mfg. plate and also the fact that it REALLY doesn't look like the grill was swapped out.

My Vehicle Number is 2462 8372; the paint scheme is "K" and the trim code is either 63 or 53 (hard to read). I got many spare parts with the purchase, one of which a a brake booster. the brakes are an item that I had considered working on with a disc conversion. Then I began questioning that decision when I learned all hoses and line (gas, brakes) are brand new - I would like to try it a Packard and not change major items that will change driving experienced as designed .

After a little research, I learned the 52 had a brake booster so I ditched the disk conversion plan and am going to add the booster. Sure, it's not "original" but it a Packard OEM item, of the same period and it doesn't change the driving experienced as designed and that is good enough / what is important to me.

A couple items I am planning and if you have any words of wisdom that you are inclined to share it is much appreciated.

1. Any feedback on adding a booster? Or any other items that the poor man's Junior wasn't equipped with but perhaps the Patrician was?

2. I was looking at this and wondering if there any are a harenesses that are known to provide a more accurate fit than others
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-and-later ... 4056008431

Seems there are many interesting dd and ends for PAckards. I also found these little odd decals, don't even know what they are for :D

Thanks again!
Howard56 wrote:Welcome to the world of Packard.

Your 200 is considered a base or junior model and is on the smaller 122 wheelbase compared to senior 127 wheelbase cars so for ease of finding parts, try to stick with junior cars when looking. I would suggest you obtain a reprint service and parts manual from the PAC store or visit http://www.packardinfo.com and view or download the 51-4 manuals to get a better idea of what will interchange. Since you are new to Packard there is a considerable amount of sales and service info you might also be interested in looking thru. All is available for free download.

Having said that, for the most part 51-54 parts will interchange but there are some differences due to model designation and wheelbase along with some running change upgrades that were introduced during production. Generally but not always upgraded parts were still able to fit earlier cars. Mechanical drivetrain parts for senior models such as the Patrician or 400 are typically more robust or larger than those used on junior cars. Midrange models such as the 300 were sort of a mixed bag with junior and senior parts kind of intermixed.
For your trunk lock, in 51 the trunk lock was strengthened and also went to larger bolts in 52. While the later units will probably fit they may be different from what you have and might require a bit of work if the bolts are different.

On the grill crest, 51 did not use the crest and had PACKARD spelled out across the hood. In 52 the hood letters were dropped and the grill crest was added. If you have a 51 with the crest it is possible someone changed the grill casting or could the car be a 52 sold in late 51 and and registered as a 51? 51 vehicle numbers start 24XX-XXXX while 52 will be 25XX-XXXX. Motor numbers start with a J in 51 and a K in 52.

The chrome bezels surrounding the crests are the same 52-4 but while the crests will all fit, the one for 53 only differs from 52 and 54 versions. Finding a used crest in good condition will probably be hard since the plastic cracks and the paint flakes off the back but there have been some repros made from time to time. Kanter or Max Merritt may still have some from a repro batch but if found will set you back $$$. Emblem Magic makes them when orders are sufficient but backlog is long and again, we are talking $$$.
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Tinman_70
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Re: 1951 200 Part Interchangeability

Post by Tinman_70 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:06 am

If you're planning to re-wire using one of the kits shown in your link, you are in for a real job. These kits are usually for 12 volt applications and need modifications particularly with the turn signal and flasher circuits. I re-wired my '49 using a kit from American Autowire because I made expensive changes for an alternator and grounding, but kept it as 6 volt positive ground. If you're planning on keeping the car completely original, replacing just the defective wires or buying an original wiring kit, expensive but saves time and effort. Just my experience.
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Howard56
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Re: 1951 200 Part Interchangeability

Post by Howard56 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:24 am

If you are going to keep 6v some of the aftermarket loom places offer what they sometimes call a heavy duty loom with wire sizes more appropriate for 6v systems. I would definitely try for that option as the wire sizes in standard aftermarket 12v looms are generally too small for the current needed with 6v.

The brake booster was introduced with 52 models but was later offered as a kit to retrofit in 51 models. You will also need the suspended pedal assy if you currently have manual brakes and do not have an entire kit. Possibly some extra tubing or fittings would be needed as well. The pedal assy should not be too hard to find as it was virtually unchanged thru 54 and maybe went in 55s with just a minor change to the food pad area.

Be advised that in some 51s there might be a bit of a clearance issue with frame work needed to clear the booster. Go to http://www.packardinfo.com and have a look in the Service Letters, Counselors and Bulletins category accessible from the literature page for the May 1952 Service Counselor Vol 26 No 5. The instructions for installing the kit are in that counselor with the possible frame work noted. The booster for 51-52 had the separate air breather mounted on the firewall and connected by a hose to the booster unit. That separate breather was incorporated onto the vacuum section in later boosters so if you have one of the later units with a single hose nipple and the small rectangle on top of the round vacuum section you can ignore the extra work of mounting the breather.

On the grill crest, I suppose anything is possible so hard to say what or why something is different that your car has the crest. I don't recall ever seeing a mention of it being a late change and the parts book nor sales items list the crest as used on the 24th series 1951 grills -- only the 25th thru 54th series. 52 and 54 used the same red background crest in your photo while 53 has a black edged background. EmblemMagic reproduces both but has neither in stock so it would be a wait to get one. Perhaps one of the guys really into those models will have an idea what is going on.
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Westside '51 200
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:04 am
Location: Venice, CA

Re: 1951 200 Part Interchangeability

Post by Westside '51 200 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:54 pm

TinMan; Thanks for sharing your knowledge/experience.

Was there any reason you kept the 6v other than originality?

The current plan is to transition to 12v per the instructions of this outfit http://www.fifthaveinternetgarage.com/a ... 051517.pdf

Westside '51 200
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:04 am
Location: Venice, CA

Re: 1951 200 Part Interchangeability

Post by Westside '51 200 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:57 pm

Howard: Thanks a ton for the heads up on potential clearance issue and the need for the pedal assembly - guessing that what this pedal is all about!

My friend/mechanic/fabricator wields a mean plasma cutter

look what I found on the visor when I was poking around yesterday!
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Tinman_70
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Re: 1951 200 Part Interchangeability

Post by Tinman_70 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 am

Westside '51 200 wrote:Was there any reason you kept the 6v other than originality?
In the beginning I wanted to keep it as original as possible and kept the 6V positive ground. If I did it again with all the changes I eventually made, including using an alternator, I would probably go with 12 volt. Starting from scratch with the re-wiring, it's not a big deal with the car completely apart as mine was. The obvious changes are using an alternator, changing the bulbs, modifying the ignition circuit, blower motor and modifying or changing the gauges. The trickier parts are changing the overdrive components and wiring. A complete original restoration should stick with the 6 volt arrangement but 12 volt does offer some advantages for slightly modified cars.
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Howard56
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Re: 1951 200 Part Interchangeability

Post by Howard56 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:38 am

That appears to be the rubber pad for the suspended power brake pedal assy but there is more you will need if the previous owner did not provide a complete assy.

Here is a photo of the suspended pedal assys. The 51-55 version is on the right and mounts with a single bracket so the arm is to the right of the steering column. Treadlevac rod fastens to a mounting point centered about midway under the pad. That entire assy should bolt right in a 52 following the instructions in the counselor referenced above.

The wider pedal 56 version is on the left. Brackets mount so arm is suspended over the air vent and to the left of steering column. The 56 assy is more robust and probably could be made to fit a 52 but would need a lot more work in locating and bolting the brackets. Both assys should be easy to find from used parts vendors and do appear on ebay from time to time. Your friend wielding the mean plasma cutter could probably make something along the lines of the factory item too.
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55And1956BrakePedalLevers1.jpg

Westside '51 200
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:04 am
Location: Venice, CA

Re: 1951 200 Part Interchangeability

Post by Westside '51 200 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:05 pm

Tinman_70 wrote:
Westside '51 200 wrote:Was there any reason you kept the 6v other than originality?
In the beginning I wanted to keep it as original as possible and kept the 6V positive ground. If I did it again with all the changes I eventually made, including using an alternator,.
If you had the chance for a mulligan would you buy a pre-fabbed harness and if so which one? I plan on going that route and would love to tap into your knowledge!

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