1934 twelve limo

Queries about model and year identification, engine and vehicle numbers, etc.
packmeister
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1934 twelve limo

Post by packmeister » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:45 am

I recently picked up a 34 twelve limo in Hershey and am starting the painstaking process of gathering as much history about the car and story of previous owners ect..The car is Canada built. Why did Packard not keep records of how many car models in a current build year were built? Why was 33,34 the lowest build years for the twelves compared to any other year prior or future? This guy who test drove all the twelves in Detroit did he drive the Canada twelves too? and if so the little tag I found on the glove box with a date it was tested did he have a marking he used? Thanks to anyone who can help, I have registered the car in the registry here.

packmeister

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1934 twelve limo

Post by Dave Czirr » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:27 pm

Congratulations! That's a fine car, I had a friend who had one for many years but it's chassis now sits beneath a faux LeBaron phaeton.

Is your car RHD or LHD? Can I please get the vehicle number and the theft-proof number (large embossed # on the firewall) for my ongoing research? Also the motor# if possible.

Packard did keep records of how many of each model, meaning Eight, Super Eight & Twelve but not (as far as we know, many factory records were destoryed) by individual body style yet that's rather easily estimated by a review of the surviving vehicle numbers, this is one reason I've been asking for these numbers for years. I have been able to reconstruct with high accuracy the production by each body style for the 1934 Eights but this far don't have enough data on the Super Eights and Twelves. Typically in that era the limousine would have accounted for between 6 and 8% of the total production. I don't know where you got your sales figures for the Twelve but 1933-34 were not the lowest years for sales, in fact 1934 was the next to highest though 1933 was the next to lowest - the accepted sales numbers are:

1932 - 549
1933 - 520
1934 - 960
1935 - 721
1936 - 682
1937 - 1300
1938 - 566
1939 - 446

I really don't know anything about the test drivers but sure would appreciate a picture of the tag you refer to - I've heard of them but never seen one.

packmeister
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Re: 1934 twelve limo

Post by packmeister » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:17 pm

Thanks for the response. LHD car, theft # I84648 engine#902-510 vehicle# 735-182 12-06-1934. I read about the test driver on another post on this site, but the tag is there and in perfect shape. I will get you a good picture of the tag when I pull the glove box out but it says AP#876 ( I assume the driver) At Proving Grounds 6-4-34 I assume the testing date. The car appears to be a survivor with a little paint done on the fenders a long time ago. Other than a couple slightly noisy lifters it runs good, drives good and is like entering a time machine when you get in it. I would like to confirm these #s are original and matching as I want to keep it a survivor.

Brian/packmeister

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1934 twelve limo

Post by Dave Czirr » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:09 am

Brian, thanks for the numbers and it sounds like a wonderful car, I look forward to the photo of the driver's tag (and the car) when you get time.

The "matching numbers" stuff is mostly applicable to later model GM cars; Packard did apply numbers to the frame, steering gear, transmission, rear axle, etc. at various times in their history but these numbers are not numerically matched (identical) in a particular car. But Packard did record such data as vehicle number, engine#, theft-proof number, axle ratio, color, original buyer and other details on an index card system but unfortunately only a couple of hundred of these records have survived, not including yours as far as I know. But your numbers are all entirely logical, the body theft number is right in the middle of a cluster of Twelves and only a few numbers from an 1108-734 which is your car minus the division window (734-210, #184652). The motor number is also within the range of nearby Twelves. Curiously, your car's numbers do not appear in the listing in Ed Blend's great book on the 1934 Twelves, or was it previously known to me and another historian who religiously collects this data so I'd guess this car was "off the screen" for many years. Your car is the 172nd 1934 Twelve limo produced; we know they made at least 210 of the 734 (same car without the divider).

Enclosed is a page from one of several articles I've had published in The Packard Club's quarterly magazine about the theft-proof numbers. If you look at the graph and follow the data for the 1108 chassis, it appears your car was built in the third (and last?) production campaign of the Twelves. Or at least that's how I interpreted it.
Attachments
BSN Update pg 2.jpg

packmeister
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Re: 1934 twelve limo

Post by packmeister » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:14 am

Thanks Dave, I have had many classic cars it always amazes me that there is always some one like you who puts so much time in, thanks for that. So the 735 is a 734 with a divider window??? If so do you know how many 735's of the 210 total? It was written in the the auction paper work that there were 14 known survivors of the limo twelves, I wonder how accurate that is and where they found that data. The hunt continues. It also said this car was off the US radar until 2008 just like you noted. Good stuff Dave.

Brian/packmeister

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1934 twelve limo

Post by Dave Czirr » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:28 am

Brian; the 1108 was also available to custom coachbuilders as a chassis-only and there were 10 different Dietrich & LeBaron series customs available on it, but there were only two factory body styles available, the 734 which was the Twelve 7 passenger sedan, and the 735 which was the Twelve 7 passenger limousine. Yours is only the second 735 that I've actually gotten data from. The current PAC membership directory shows four 734s and five 735s in the hands of the membership.

packmeister
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Re: 1934 twelve limo

Post by packmeister » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:52 am

2013-12-30 12.31.21.jpg
2013-12-30 12.31.21.jpg
Dave I have attached a pic of the test driver tag for your viewing and a pic of the car.
Attachments
2013-12-30 11.58.58.jpg

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Ozstatman
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Location: Bowral, Southern Highlands NSW, Australia

Re: 1934 twelve limo

Post by Ozstatman » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:58 pm

I'm not good at standing on my head to read posts so I've reposted one of the Tag photos right way up. :D
Test Driver Tag - right way up.jpg
Mal
Currently - '50 Packard Eight Touring Sedan
Previously - '41 120 Club Coupe(Sold October 2017) & '38 Eight Touring Sedan(Sold July 2009)
Bowral, Southern Highlands, NSW Australia

"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1934 twelve limo

Post by Dave Czirr » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:14 pm

Mal, there are people who say you do your best thinking upside down!

packmeister
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Re: 1934 twelve limo

Post by packmeister » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:02 pm

I know I saw a post here somewhere that talked about the drivers who test drove all the twelves. I have to believe that the AP # 876 would be the identity of the driver?

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