Model codes signification

Queries about model and year identification, engine and vehicle numbers, etc.
Olivierdejong
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Re: Model codes signification

Post by Olivierdejong » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:31 am

Dave you'll be pleased to know that I just made the payment for my membership...
Olivier Dejong
+32 477 308 669
Packardclubbelgium@yahoo.com

Dave Czirr
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Re: Model codes signification

Post by Dave Czirr » Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:15 am

Congratulations on your membership, I'm sure you'll enjoy the benefits. Are you aware that The Packard Club has a region in Belgium? - regional membership offers a great way to meet like-minded people and get more quickly immersed in Packards. You should be able to find a link to the Belgian region by going back to the main web home page and clicking on "Regions".

I promised you some numbers for the 21st series which comprised 1946 and 1947, differing only in the vehicle number. I'm not sure how familiar you are with this so I'll try to paint the larger picture, though somewhat abbreviated. The series of models were differentiated by their engines and corresponding chassis. The "junior" cars comprised two models, the Six and the Eight; the eight also had a slightly upscale companion called the Eight Deluxe, the Six was a 245 cubic inch 6-cylinder engine, the Eight and Deluxe were a 282 cubic inch 8-cylinder with 5 main bearings.. The "senior" Packards also comprised two models, the Super Clipper and the Custom Super Clipper and used a 356 cubic inch 8-cylinder engine with 9 main bearings. The Super Clipper and Custom Super Clipper shared the same engine and chassis and differed primarily in interior trim and upholstery materials; these two are considered Classics today by the CCCA, the lesser junior models are not. The range of body styles included sedans, club sedans, 2 versions of a Taxi in the Six model, and some limousines in the other models, there was no convertible in the 21st series. The sedan and club sedan were available across all the model lines. Production excluding the limousines for 1946 and 1947 respectively were: Six - 15,892 and 14,949; Eight & Eight Deluxe - 7214 and 23,855; Super Clipper - 4924 and 4802; Custom Super Clipper 1472 and 5690. Packard kept no records by body style in the model lines but I'd guess the club sedan was perhaps 10%, maybe less. Manufacturer's suggested list prices for the club sedan in the Six and Eight were about $1680; the Super Clipper about $2240, and the Custom Super Clipper about $2913. The Super Clipper and Custom Super Clipper were considered to be among the fastest stock cars of the era, if not the fastest.

How many club sedans survive is difficult to estimate but we can identify those owned by Packard Club members, to which you can add some additional which belong to non-club members and are hidden in old barns or garages waiting to be "discovered". Known club sedan survivors for the Six are 5, for the Eight 7, for the Super Clipper 5, and for the Custom Super Clipper 14. These figures are now a few years old so there may be more. Perhaps doubling these numbers would be a good estimate.

I hope this helps put your car is some perspective. There are many fine books on Packards and if you're interested we can discuss this at some point.

Dave

Olivierdejong
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Re: Model codes signification

Post by Olivierdejong » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:04 am

Hello Dave.
Thank You for this very complète summary.

So according to your estimation, there would be some 5*2 super clipper club sedan known by the club, this for the two year sur 46-47 all together. Not much indeed.
That seems co correspond with the affirmations of the super clipper custom club sedan for sale on You tube and which mentionned 20 left. Not the same figure but it Vives an idea.
I know that there is a Belgian division, but so far I got no answer from them, maybe them are on holiday, but their internet site shows no activity for quite a while...

I know a clipper club sedan for sale in Germany, black, looking fair on pictures. 107cv They say. It looks s'maller than mine, probably à shorter wheelbase as on a junior as you said if i understand You properly. On sale for quite a while.

For the Brooks, yes I'd like to read. We have a great bookshop dedicated to Classic cars here in Brussels Autoworld museum. I'll first have a look there by pure lazyness, to find maybe something in French.

Have a good afternoon.

Olivier
Olivier Dejong
+32 477 308 669
Packardclubbelgium@yahoo.com

Olivierdejong
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:40 pm
Location: Brussels - Belgium
Contact:

Re: Model codes signification

Post by Olivierdejong » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:09 am

There it is...
I inquire to get some more details.
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Olivier Dejong
+32 477 308 669
Packardclubbelgium@yahoo.com

Olivierdejong
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:40 pm
Location: Brussels - Belgium
Contact:

Re: Model codes signification

Post by Olivierdejong » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:13 am

I Also saw this coupe 8 cyl 1938 the other day.
1604 or 1601.
Interesting bodywork?
Any comment I am interested...
I might think of it.
Best regards.
Olivier
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Olivier Dejong
+32 477 308 669
Packardclubbelgium@yahoo.com

Dave Czirr
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Re: Model codes signification

Post by Dave Czirr » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:24 am

Glad you found the information useful. I'd be very surprised if the Belgian affiliate of PAC was no longer active, they hosted an excellent Packard Euro tour in Belgium in 2013, some details here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2223

The 5-pass coupe you posted a picture of is a "senior" car (not a 1601 which would be the "junior" 8-cylinder model); again an uncommon (only 5 listed in the club Membership Directory) and desirable body style, standard factory coachwork. It would appear to be a 1604-1117 (Super Eight) which is a Full Classic per the CCCA.

Many excellent books on Packard; the Beverly Rae Kimes edited "PACKARD, a History of the Motor Car and the Company" is pretty much the Bible for Packards. To focus more on the postwar cars Nat Dawes "PACKARD 1942-1962", though long out of print would be another good choice if you can find it.

Tell me, are you familiar at all with Belgium's most famous car, the Minerva? I have a good friend who has several of them, one with custom coachwork by D'Ieteren Freres who I believe is still in the auto business.

Olivierdejong
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Re: Model codes signification

Post by Olivierdejong » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:34 am

Thank You Dave.

The minerva was one of Belgium's car makers be fore ww2.
High luxury.
D'ieteren still exists.
Volkswagen official garage in belgium, Also déglingue with Porsche, Audi ... Indeed a coachbuilder once.
A fantastic personnal Classic cars collection Also. One of europe's best ones.

Any comment on the small clipper?
Olivier Dejong
+32 477 308 669
Packardclubbelgium@yahoo.com

Olivierdejong
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:40 pm
Location: Brussels - Belgium
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Re: Model codes signification

Post by Olivierdejong » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:48 am

And You are right, they speak of a 1601 or 1604, according to the papiers...
Olivier Dejong
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Packardclubbelgium@yahoo.com

Dave Czirr
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Re: Model codes signification

Post by Dave Czirr » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:16 pm

Sent you a PM (private message).

Olivierdejong
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:40 pm
Location: Brussels - Belgium
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Re: Model codes signification

Post by Olivierdejong » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:29 am

About the Belgian PAC, i saw indeed the activity of 2013 but nithing ever since. That' why I wondered.
On their site i see a forecasted trip in 2015, but no évidence on the net...
Olivier Dejong
+32 477 308 669
Packardclubbelgium@yahoo.com

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