1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

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genehouse
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Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by genehouse » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:46 am

I've been thinking, I do not know about anyone else but I'd gladly pay you $15-$20 for you to take the complete set of pictures and discussion AFTER you finish the project and get you car up and running again. This has been the most complete and detailed blog I have ever encountered for doing this type of work. I'm very happy just to know there are still people out there capable of this type of craftsmanship. I hope to be able to show the same degree of detail when I tackle the 26. Congratulations, on a job well done so far! Gene
1949 Super 8 Limousine
1939 Buick Special
1926 Star 6
1926 Star Landau (still in AZ waiting for me to pick it up!)

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Tinman_70
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Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Tinman_70 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:42 pm

Gene,

Thanks for the comment. I have all the pictures. If I get some time I'll see if I can put something together about taking the engine apart. The Packard 8 is a very interesting engine, one like I've not seen before.

Joe
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Adam
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Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Adam » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:31 am

Hi Joe

This would make a fascinating article for the Cormorant magazine. Perhaps you could do two separate articles, one on the engine and one on the rest of the car?

I for one, enjoy reading about people`s exploits with their cars, be it restoring or driving, not just historical articles.

Perhaps you should give it some thought?

Kind regards
Adam..
"Do not underestimate the English cousin.....they are not as stupid as they look!" - Signor Altabani in The Italian Job.

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Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Tinman_70 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:53 am

My wife had some medical problems in the last couple of weeks that kept me from working on the Packard. She’s back to 100% so I’m able to get back to the Packard. However I did pick up some new skills while I was off, like the fine points of operating a clothes washer, Dyson vacuum, dishwasher, a stove and how to negotiate a grocery store!

The Packard 8 engine is something to behold. It is engineered and built more like a long-lasting industrial engine rather than something for an automobile. The block casting is heavily reinforced with large bearing surfaces and a forged steel crankshaft and connecting rods. It was certainly designed and built to last. Upon dis-assembly, I found that all the crankshaft journals, both main and rod, were standard size as was the cylinder bore diameter. Using Plastigauge, the bearing clearances were found to still be within tolerance and the journals were smooth. Amazing for an engine over 65 years old. The only obvious machine work was on the cylinder head which appeared to have been lightly milled. With the exception of the areas around the valves where sludge could collect, the internal surfaces of the block were very clean. I was surprised and pleased with what I found.

Dis-assembly:

With the engine in the original upright position on the stand, the oil pan, balancer, front cover, oil pick up and head were removed.
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While most of the engine block was relatively clean, there was about 3/8” of sludge in the bottom of the oil pan. One of the interesting design features of the Packard oil pickup is that the pickup swivels rather than being fixed. More importantly, the intake on the pickup is not on the bottom but rather on the side (see picture). If there is a sludge build up, this allows the intake to sit above the sludge and draw clean(er) oil to the pump.
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Other older engines I’ve worked on, primarily flathead Ford V8s, have a fixed pickup with the intake on the bottom allowing sludge to enter the pump. Definitely well designed by Packard.

While the inside of the engine was somewhat clean, the outside was not. Even after being power washed, the oil pan and front cover had baked on grease, grime and paint. Degreaser didn’t help so I used some aerosol paint remover on the outside and EasyOff oven cleaner on the inside. Both worked quite well.
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At this point I built the front support centered on the crankshaft so the engine could rotated upside down.
P2031250.jpg


Internal dis-assembly came next.
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Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Tinman_70 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:46 am

Engine Dis-assembly:

Was able to rotate the engine block to an upside down position. This was very difficult due to the engine being so top heavy. Needed to be lowered with the assistance of a hoist rather than by hand. A better engine stand would locate the turning center closer to the weight center rather than the crankshaft centerline. In order to remove the crankshaft, another new fixed front mount had to be made to replace the one attached to the crankshaft.
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A rod cap and main cap were removed for a quick clearance check with Plastigauge. A more precise method will be used later.
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Removed the timing chain and gears.
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Removed the connecting rod caps. They were factory numbered 1 to 8. The main caps were not numbered except for #3 which was incorrectly numbered with a "4". Stamped the main caps 1-4, it would be hard to mistake the massive 4-bolt rear cap.
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The crankshaft was ready to be removed but the pistons were still in the cylinders. They could not be removed until the ridge at the top of the cylinders was removed. With the engine upside down in a fixed position it would be hard to use a ridge reamer. Pieces of plastic tubing were placed on the rod bolts to protect the crankshaft journals and the pistons and rods were slid out of the way to the top of the cylinders and the crankshaft was removed.
P2061263.jpg
Crankshaft - Long and Heavy

Next step will be re-positioning the engine on the stand and reaming the cylinder ridges, removing the pistons, the valves, the camshaft and lifters.
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Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Dave Czirr » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:00 am

Nice to see proper storage of the crankshaft, on end!

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Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Tinman_70 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:54 am

Engine Dis-assembly – Continued

With the crankshaft removed, the pistons were ready to be removed. The plastic tubing was left on the rod bolts.
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To remove the pistons, the engine block was positioned on its side with yet another front stand support. A jack was added to help support.
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The carbon and wear ridges at the top of the cylinders were removed with an Ammco Tools ridge reamer. The model is about 30 years old and is no longer produced. It will do the job but newer models are better.
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The reamer is placed in the cylinder and small hex is lightly tightened with a wrench then the large hex is turned clockwise with a wrench, in this case a deep socket to miss the head studs. When it turns easily it is re-tightened and turned. This is continued until the ridge is gone.
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With all the ridges removed, the pistons were removed.
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The valves were removed next. The valve springs were compressed with a “C” type spring compressor. Once adjusted for the first valve, it is just a matter of going down the line and removing all 16. If the split valve spring keepers were droped in the block they were retrieved with a magnet or long-nose pliers. The valves were kept in order by placing them in a wood block drilled with 16 holes and marked 1 to 8, intake and exhaust.
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Next the cam and lifters will be removed and the cylinders measured for wear taper.
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Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Tinman_70 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:34 am

Final Dis-Assembly:

The Packard 8 solid lifters cannot be removed from the top. With the valves removed, the lifters were pushed all the way up so the camshaft lobes and journals will clear as the camshaft is being removed. With the camshaft retainer plate removed, the camshaft was carefully removed through the cam bearings and out of the engine block.
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The lifters were then removed in order and placed in a piece of cardboard and numbered.
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With the engine now completely dis-assembled, the cylinder bores were checked with a dial bore gauge. The cylinders are not oversize indicating the block has not been bored. The original bore diameter is 3.500”. The bore gauge is set using a 3” to 4” outside micrometer to put 3.500” at “0” on the dial. The is a spring-loaded roller ball on the end of gauge connected to the dial that will indicated measurements above or below the setting of 3.500”. The gauge is inserted into the bore at the bottom of the cylinder. This is the “no wear area” of the bore. As the gauge is moved to several different positions in the area, the minimum reading observed is diameter at that point. For example, if the reading is .001” above “0” than the diameter at that point is 3.501”. Reading are taken at multiple points along the bore at several different angles. Particular care is taken in the areas where the piston rings are in contact with the cylinder, this is where most wear will occur. The difference between the “no wear area” at the bottom of the cylinder and the top of the cylinder determines the wear taper of the cylinder. With all the measurements taken and recorded, the maximum taper was .0035” with the majority at .0020”. The Packard service manual calls for the maximum taper to be less than .007” to .010” (Page 7). Greater than that would require the cylinder to be bored oversize. These cylinders are well within the recommended limits.
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The cylinder walls are glazed and will honed and cross-hatched for new rings.
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The hones used are a Lisle Glaze Breaker hone for the first pass and a Brush Research brush hone for the final cross-hatch pattern.
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All the cylinders were honed then rechecked for taper with no changes.

The final parts removed from the engine block were the oil gallery plugs. Another interesting feature of the Packard 8 is the oil gallery running down the right side of the engine block. It is plugged at both at both ends with a screw-in plug in the front and a 3/8” pipe plug (NPT) in the rear. The rear plug has a female 5/16” square hole that requires a square 5/16” male tool to remove, not the easiest tool to find. Tried to make several but failed, finally bought a socket online. The interesting part is that there are 5 – 1/8” plugs along the gallery leading to each of the main bearings. This will make it easy to clean the oil passages from the oil pump to the main bearings.
P2241296.jpg
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Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Tinman_70 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:36 am

Water Pump Rebuild:

The water pump on the car leaked like a sieve and the bearing was so bad that it would barely turn.
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I priced rebuilt water pumps and they seemed a bit pricey, almost $200 with core and return shipping along with a $100 core charge. It the core isn't deemed to be acceptable, you would have over $300 in a rebuilt water pump. I did some checking and found a rebuild kit for $70. Apparently, the Packard water pump is similar to several other pumps, like John Deere tractors, so rebuild parts are available. Also found a video on YouTube that shows generally how to rebuild a similar water pump. The video is at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1x3-R2l03Q

Note – The seal in the Packard pump differs from the one in the video.

The first step in the rebuild is the press off the impeller and press out the bearing. If there is a spring clip securing the bearing it needs to be removed. Using an inexpensive shop press, unlike the massive hydraulic press in the video, the impeller was pressed off and the bearing pressed out the front of the pump. There was a loud pop when it finally came loose.
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The step was to remove the fan blade mount from the front of the bearing shaft. With that, the water pump is completely dis-assembled.
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These are the parts from the dis-assembled pump. The bearing shaft and the seal surface of the impeller were in very bad shape as was the bearing itself.
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I broke the seal while prying out of the impeller.
These are the new parts that came in the rebuild kit. There is a new bearing shaft, new impeller, new spring seal plus gaskets. The front nose on the bearing shaft is slightly longer than the original and there is no groove for the spring clip. I haven’t decided whether to trim the shaft to size or just leave it.
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A quick trip through the blast cabinet and it’s ready to clean and re-assemble by reversing the process.
P3031315.jpg
Last edited by Tinman_70 on Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Dave Czirr » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:44 am

Tinman, you are obviously very familiar with engine rebuilding techniques; been there myself a few times. I do enjoy your well-illustrated postings and know they will prove very useful to others.

There is nothing like the pleasure of doing it yourself. Yet for others less ambitious, newly manufactured water pumps for 1938 to 1950 (except 38/39 Super Eight and Twelve) are only $145 outright, no core exchange.

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