1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

If you're starting a project, large or small, please share your progress with us in pictures and words.
User avatar
Tinman_70
Posts: 765
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:17 am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida

Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Tinman_70 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:16 am

My plans to drive my Packard out of the shop for the first in over 5 years came to a screeching halt. Got the lower radiator hose leak fixed and filled the radiator with coolant. Fired the engine up and a fixed a small heater hose leak. with the engine running, I was checking the gauge readings and verifying that the windshield wipers were operating. Walked around to the front of the car and gas was pouring out of the fuel pump. Shut the engine down and determined that lower fuel pump diaphragm had ruptured. The pump worked fine when I bought the car, when the engine was run for break-in and when I ran it at the end of the last year, but with old parts you never know when it might fail. Rather than buying a rebuild kit, I removed the pump and sent it FedEx to Gould Rebuilders. They promised a quick turnaround. The lesson learned was not to trust a piece of equipment that is so critical to the operation of the car. I'm also devising a way to quickly bypass the mechanical pump to operate on the electric priming pump if the mechanical pump causes a breakdown on the road.

While I'm waiting to get the pump back from Gould, I'm working on moving the front seat back several inches so it is more comfortable to drive. I don't know what Packard was thinking, maybe it just a problem with the 2-door models but if you are over 5'7" and 170 pounds, the seat in the back most position is very tight.
Dare to be Different - Buy and Build Packards!
Member:
Packard Automobile Classics
packardclub.org
packardinfo.com
Series 22/23 Packard Group on Facebook

Prudence
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 1:41 pm

Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Prudence » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:40 pm

I agree...I am 5'6" and 180 pounds and the driver's position is snug, but comfortable, for me. We have a 49 four door deluxe. The seating is about the same as my 31 Model A Tudor...I wonder if it is the standard ergonomics for that period of time? ;) Ernie in Arizona

Adam
Posts: 1058
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:15 am
Location: lincolnshire, uk

Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Adam » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:00 am

Tinman_70 wrote: I'm also devising a way to quickly bypass the mechanical pump to operate on the electric priming pump if the mechanical pump causes a breakdown on the road.

.
Could you have a system of dry-break connectors either side of the mechanical pump, so that should the need arise, you could disconnect from the pump and reconnect the ends to form a by-pass?
"Do not underestimate the English cousin.....they are not as stupid as they look!" - Signor Altabani in The Italian Job.

User avatar
Tinman_70
Posts: 765
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:17 am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida

Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Tinman_70 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:46 am

Adam,

I'm looking for a temporary "on the road" fit. There is a barb fitting on the incoming fuel line where the short rubber fuel hose connects to the pump. It's held on with a spring clip and is reachable without removing the heat shield. My thought is to remove the hose from the fuel line barb fitting (the line is attached to the front cross-member), replace it with a longer piece of rubber fuel hose and attach it directly to either the fuel filter or directly to the carburetor after removing the hard fuel line and installing a barb fitting for the bypass hose. Of course, the temporary hose would have to be kept away from the exhaust manifold. Start the electric fuel pump, check for leaks and you should be back on your way.

This is the short hose I'm talking about. The end with the 90 degree barb fitting connects directly to the fuel pump, the other end connects to the incoming fuel line. Not sure all cars are exactly the same. Gould told me that most of the post-war dual pumps are similar.
Hose.jpg
When I finally get the car running I'll give this more thought!. The pump failure was a real wake-up call, glad it happened in my shop rather than on a trip!
Dare to be Different - Buy and Build Packards!
Member:
Packard Automobile Classics
packardclub.org
packardinfo.com
Series 22/23 Packard Group on Facebook

User avatar
Tinman_70
Posts: 765
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:17 am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida

Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Tinman_70 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:55 am

While waiting for my rebuilt fuel pump, I moved the the front seat back 3" to give me a more comfortable driving position. The floor is not flat in the area of the seat track, simply moving it back by drilling holes in the floor would cause the seat to tilt back. I fastened a piece of 1/4" steel plate to the original seat track bolt holes and installed bolts coming up from the bottom of the plate 3" back from the original mounting holes. These serve as mounting studs for the seat track.
Seat Relo_1.jpg
All the mounting hardware are Grade 8 bolts.
One unforeseen result of moving the seat back was that the return spring no longer fits without adding a new bracket on the seat frame. I don't plan on having to move the seat so I just locked it in a comfortable position and will just leave it in that position. Moving the seat this way, if someone wants to move it back to the original position, just remove the plate and reinstall the seat in the original position.
Seat Relo_3.jpg
This is the original seat position all the way back.
Seat Relo_4.jpg
This is the seat after being moved, also all the way back.
Dare to be Different - Buy and Build Packards!
Member:
Packard Automobile Classics
packardclub.org
packardinfo.com
Series 22/23 Packard Group on Facebook

Howard56
Posts: 1117
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am

Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Howard56 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 pm

I believe most people mount their electric pumps near the tank and push fuel thru the mechanical pump. Of course that does require a mechanical pump with a solid intact diaphragm. Using an on/off switch for the power allows the pump to be turned on for priming or in case of vapor lock and off during normal driving. Several have felt that the rear placement may help alleviate vapor lock issues because the increased volatility of todays gas tends to bubble more when it is under lower pressure such as when the pump is pulling. Placing the electric near the tank and turning it on adds pressure in the fuel line before it reaches the mechanical pump suction side and keeps any bubbles from expanding. The stock mechanical pumps will pull thru a solenoid type electric when it is off but not the case with most rotary electric types. Those typically need a check valve and tubing bypass around the electric pump for the mechanical to pull. Airtex has drop in 5/16 tubing size 6 and 12v solenoid pumps in a good psi range for older carbureted cars.

If that hose you show is the one between the steel line and pump inlet I believe it is home grown. As far as I know, for a factory item there was a crimped fitting on each end of the short rubber hose. 22-23 series used two type hoses and I don't know if the transition was made between models or at the series change or a running change during production. Based on comments from some buying or deciding on the proper hose there seems to be a bit of overlap.

Pump side was the same on both hoses -- a 1/8 pipe fitting which screwed into the pump port. The end connecting to the steel line on the early type had a regular rounded flare seat and nut which connected to the brass fitting block soldered onto the steel tube and bolted to the crossmember. The other style hose had a simple inverted flare fitting and connected directly to the flared end of the steel tube.

Niagara Packards has repros as probably do the vendors or you can usually get one made locally -- although local made might have a different look to the fittings.
Attachments
hose.jpg
pump.jpg

User avatar
Tinman_70
Posts: 765
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:17 am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida

Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Tinman_70 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:43 am

I use a 6V Carter rotary vane pump mounted on the inside of the frame behind a regulator to keep the pressure low enough not to upset the fuel pump and carburetor float. When the engine was broken-in, the mechanical pump seemed to have no problem drawing enough fuel through the electric pump during 20 minute sessions with the electric pump off. However, after taking Howard's earlier advice, I modified the setup to add a one-way bypass around the electric pump. The one-way valve keeps the electric pump from pumping fuel back to the gas tank. Wasn't sure that what I experienced during break-in was typical of what might happen at 55 mph down the highway and there was no sense taking a chance. Here's a picture of the final setup. The bypass fuel does not go through the canister filter but there is another filter at the carburetor. I would have had to scrap the entire setup to move the filter.
Fuel_1.jpg
Fuel inlet on the right, T fitting to bypass electric pump, than the fuel filter, Carter pump, low pressure regulator, T fitting for bypass line, outlet fitting to fuel line to the engine. One way valve is in the middle of the bypass line with the arrow pointing the fuel direction.
For the mechanical fuel pump bypass setup in case of a pump failure, I wondered if the hose on my car was typical of the original so I added the picture. An emergency repair could be done with the original-type hose but it would be a little more difficult having to remove the fitting from the fuel line with a wrench and require some additional hardware. Maybe carrying a spare original hose with a barb fitting installed on 1/8" NPT end for a piece of rubber fuel line directly to the carburetor. Detach the original hose at the fuel line and attach the bypass hose. Maybe that would work?

I sent my fuel pump to Gould and it arrived there yesterday. They called first thing this morning and said that the bottom section of the pump housing had pin holes and would have to be replaced. It only cost an additional $15 so I agreed and they said the pump would be done and shipped back today. Very prompt service!
Dare to be Different - Buy and Build Packards!
Member:
Packard Automobile Classics
packardclub.org
packardinfo.com
Series 22/23 Packard Group on Facebook

Dave Czirr
Moderator
Posts: 4961
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:30 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Dave Czirr » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:59 am

Generally mechanical fuel pumps give at least 80,000 miles of service and in old car service, at least 20 years. My Gould rebuilt mechanical pumps have been in service 20 or more years, no issues, and I expect you'll have similar results. Despite that, if you tour much on forgotten back roads and byways, always nice to have a fall-back system.

User avatar
Tinman_70
Posts: 765
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:17 am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida

Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Tinman_70 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:55 am

Milestone day for my Packard project, drove it out of the shop under its own power for the first time since I drove it or pushed it into the shop back in 2013. Drove it on to the lift and checked for leaks, made sure everything was tight and greased the front suspension. Going to change the oil in the transmission and rear differential and it should be ready for at least a short shakedown drive.
Finally Rolling_1.jpg
Finally Rolling_2.jpg
Finally Rolling_3.jpg
Dare to be Different - Buy and Build Packards!
Member:
Packard Automobile Classics
packardclub.org
packardinfo.com
Series 22/23 Packard Group on Facebook

Adam
Posts: 1058
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:15 am
Location: lincolnshire, uk

Re: 1949 Packard 8 Club Sedan

Post by Adam » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:18 am

Congratulations!! and doesn`t It look great out in the daylight.

Adam..
"Do not underestimate the English cousin.....they are not as stupid as they look!" - Signor Altabani in The Italian Job.

Post Reply