R9 Overdrive Repair

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Kirtie
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Re: R9 Overdrive Repair

Post by Kirtie » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:06 pm

Step Seven: Clean Up the Tail Shaft Assembly

Basically I just cleaned everything up. Nothing was broken or even damaged in this entire assembly, so after a good cleaning it went right back together.
Attachments
IMG_0390.JPG
This cleaned up NICELY. There's barely any wear on the teeth! (Certainly nothing unusual)
IMG_0418.JPG
Same thing, different view. This is the channel where the shift paddle rides, and moves the unit into and out of service.
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This is where the freewheeling cam will install once the time comes. The part looks great after cleanup.
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Tail shaft assembly, different view and post-cleanup
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I just wiped this off with a rag and reinstalled it in the tail shaft.
IMG_0422.JPG
Tail shaft assembly, complete and cleaned up.
********** KIRT LIEDAHL **********

1949 Packard 2272 Super Eight Touring Sedan ("Pearl")
http://facebook.com/pearlthepackard/

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Kirtie
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Re: R9 Overdrive Repair

Post by Kirtie » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:33 am

Step Eight: Adapter Plate and Stationary (sun) Gear

This was pretty straightforward. As with all of the processes, I followed the Service Manual PRECISELY.
Attachments
IMG_0034.jpg
The adapter plate, cleaned up and ready for installation
IMG_0035.jpg
Adapter plate installed on transmission; note that I used a new gasket. USE A NEW GASKET. The whole transmission/overdrive set was $45.
IMG_0038.jpg
The stationary gear assembly after clean-up and a spray of lithium grease. This is actually four components- the stationary gear, the sun gear that sticks up out of it, a snap ring that holds it all together, and the balk ring that activates it. EXTREMELY precise fit- if you need to take one apart, it should NOT be sloppy once assembled.
IMG_0039.jpg
The balk ring, ready for installation on the stationary assembly. Note that there is a beveled side and a flat side- it matters! This is shown with the beveled side toward the camera.
IMG_0040.jpg
Balk ring installed on the stationary gear. Note the beveled side is DOWN.
IMG_0041.jpg
Stationary gear assembly installed in the adapter plate. Note the location of the balk ring- this will matter very shortly.
IMG_0042.jpg
The stationary assembly, installed. Note the snap ring groove is JUST BARELY clearing the top of the stationary gear- you don't want much gap there at all, or you'll have forward/back play in your assembly. That's bad,
********** KIRT LIEDAHL **********

1949 Packard 2272 Super Eight Touring Sedan ("Pearl")
http://facebook.com/pearlthepackard/

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Kirtie
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Re: R9 Overdrive Repair

Post by Kirtie » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:03 am

Step Nine: Solenoid and Gear Plate

This is pretty straightforward as well, as long as you remember to do some measuring and pay attention to how you install the solenoid unit.
(There are several things posted about this procedure- a couple by me).
Attachments
IMG_0043.jpg
Installed the pawl (keyhole) into the overdrive. Note the following: where the balk ring is at in relation to the pawl, and what side is up on the pawl (there's a notch on one side, and not on the other- that notch MUST point up or you're doomed)
IMG_0044.jpg
I failed to get a photo of the feeler gauge I used to measure this, but you want to make sure you have at least .015" clearance between the pawl and the balk ring once the solenoid is installed. If there isn't enough gap, you have to add gaskets to the solenoid base to get the correct spacing. I didn't have to worry about this- there was plenty of space with just one gasket.
IMG_0045.jpg
The gear plate, installed. Note the location of the tab. (Honestly, you can't really mess it up, but I'm being thorough)
IMG_0046.jpg
Make sure, when the gear plate is installed, that there is .010" clearance between the pawl and the gear plate tab. If there's not, then it is most likely warped, and will need to be replaced. (I lucked out- mine was still good even after catastrophic gear failure.) If you're observant, you'll notice I took this picture while the snap ring wasn't installed- I measured it while assembled, then disassembled it to spray it with lithium grease and get pictures. Oops! Ha
IMG_0452.jpg
The solenoid profile. Note that the base has a long a short side, and which side is facing up! (a.k.a. the rear of the unit)
IMG_0454.jpg
A shot of the solenoid base, gasket, and pawl all assembled. Note: I also added, but failed to photograph, a couple of circular gaskets to the actual shaft of the solenoid inside the base. I don't know if this is necessary or even correct, but I didn't want any leaks out of it.
********** KIRT LIEDAHL **********

1949 Packard 2272 Super Eight Touring Sedan ("Pearl")
http://facebook.com/pearlthepackard/

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Kirtie
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Re: R9 Overdrive Repair

Post by Kirtie » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:32 am

Step Ten: Installing the Planetary Gear

This was a little tricky, but made sense once I realized what all needed to happen. The important thing for me was to realize that the snap ring needed to be pretty perfectly aligned on the shaft for the planetary to correctly fit around it. I then took some measurements, in case it helps anyone out there. For me, it was pretty apparent when I finally (FINALLY) got the snap ring correctly aligned- the planetary assembly slid on with a solid "thunk".
Attachments
IMG_0491.jpg
The snap ring (or stationary gear retaining ring) needs to align with the stationary gear quite precisely or the planetary assembly will NOT install the way it should. See the next photo.
IMG_0492.jpg
This machined area on the underside of the planetary assembly is where the snap ring fits. If the snap ring ins't aligned (and in good enough shape), the assembly will sit ON the snap ring, not OVER it. That's bad.
IMG_0496.jpg
When the planetary assembly installs correctly, there is barely any, if any, clearance between the base and the gear plate. Note that this photo shows the retainer ring that holds the gear plate in place.
IMG_0498.jpg
0.8 inches of shaft from the top of the planetary assembly to the end of the driven shaft when installed correctly. I imagine this could vary a tiny bit due to manufacturing variances, but I doubt by very much.
IMG_0499.jpg
This looks like a photo of one of the gears in the planetary, but actually it's a poor photo of the spring washer installed on the top of it. The spring washer should have the cup facing up. It's hard to see that in this picture.
IMG_0500.jpg
My spring washer fit very precisely on the planetary assembly. (Just an observation.)
********** KIRT LIEDAHL **********

1949 Packard 2272 Super Eight Touring Sedan ("Pearl")
http://facebook.com/pearlthepackard/

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Kirtie
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Re: R9 Overdrive Repair

Post by Kirtie » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:24 pm

Step Eleven: Installing the Ring Gear and Roller Cam Assemblies

Before I say anything, I'll say this: If you need to take apart the roller cam assembly, make sure you remember which direction the springs were facing! HA I took mine apart three times before I got it right... Might have been my Norwegian flaring up?? Ha

As with all of the overdrive parts, I made sure to get everything clean as I could and lubricated with lithium grease. Better safe than sorry, and the fine layer I put on everything wouldn't have much effect on parts that have to fit together precisely. So if you see a milky-looking film on some or all of the parts, that's why.

Ring gear assembly just fits on to the planetary assembly... I had to adjust the position of one or two of the planetary gears to get everything lined up, but once I did it slid right on. The roller cam slid on perfectly as well.

DON'T FORGET THE BOLT AT THE END OF THE SHAFT. I did, and I had to take the whole thing apart again to put it in. *Sigh* Ha
Attachments
IMG_0504.jpg
The planetary with the thrust washer mounted on top of the spring washer. The thrust washer has a notch in it that you'd think would fit snugly in the north in the planetary, but it doesn't, as it has to sit on the spring washer. I did my best to line the notch up with the casting on the washer and continued the assembly
IMG_0508.jpg
What I was measuring (this took two pictures, so everyone could see what I was up to- might not make as much sense with only one pic) when I reported the distance on the shaft from the ring gear assembly to the end of the shaft
IMG_0510.jpg
0.71" from the top of the ring gear to the end of the driven shaft once the ring gear is correctly installed
IMG_0511.jpg
The inside of my washer that sits on the ring gear is far from mint condition, but the surfaces were good, and it fit snugly enough I wasn't nervous about it, so I used it in reassembly. If you find your washers, particularly the thrust washers. are damaged pretty badly, it would be remiss not to replace them. None of them are cheap, but neither is messing up the overdrive you just struggled to repair!
IMG_0513.jpg
After three tries, I at last got the cage to spin the correct direction after I took it apart to clean it. Don't ask me why it took three times- the only answer I have is embarrassing. HA HA HA
IMG_0514.jpg
The completely- AND CORRECTLY- assembled roller cam assembly. It says right in the book to use a rubber band when reassembling this unit- the rubber band will get eaten off the rollers the first time the overdrive is engaged, and the gear lube in the overdrive will dissolve the remnants. Slick!
IMG_0515.jpg
The completely assembled driven shaft components. ANOTHER REMINDER TO INSTALL THE BOLT AT THE END OF THE SHAFT TO KEEP EVERYTHING IN PLACE!!!
********** KIRT LIEDAHL **********

1949 Packard 2272 Super Eight Touring Sedan ("Pearl")
http://facebook.com/pearlthepackard/

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Kirtie
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Re: R9 Overdrive Repair

Post by Kirtie » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:05 pm

Step Twelve: Final Tail Shaft Assembly

This was definitely the most challenging part of the project.

I did not remove the shift rail when I took everything else apart- all it needed was a good flush with some solvent. As for the rest, the only real way to get the final assembly accomplished was to install the outer portion of the overriding clutch (easy), which includes correctly aligning it with the shift paddle, in the case... then installing the reverse plunger, gasket, and at last attaching the case to the adapter plate/transmission.

The challenge wasn't anything PRIOR to attaching the case- that's easy and straightforward. The trick was getting the bits to align JUST PERFECTLY while maneuvering the reverse plunger around the ring gear, all while not damaging the gasket. It was a bit of a challenge, but in the end worked out just fine.
Attachments
IMG_0516.jpg
All of the pieces of the rear assembly, minus the reverse plunger spring. Don't ask me why I didn't have that on when I snapped this picture... it simply fit around the bottom center portion of ht plunder ballpoint-pen style. Also note that the tail shaft bushing has been installed, and is located on the outside of the center shaft. This fits necessarily precisely, and will help make installing the case a pain in the keister.
IMG_0517.jpg
nesting the reverse plunger. Note that I still don't have the spring for the reverse plunger installed- it fits between the bottom and next highest tier in the overdrive case.
IMG_0518.jpg
The reverse plunger, installed minus the spring.
IMG_0519.jpg
All assembled minus the spring. (I DID, in fact, put a spring on the reverse plunger- I just don't know why I can't find a picture of it!!
********** KIRT LIEDAHL **********

1949 Packard 2272 Super Eight Touring Sedan ("Pearl")
http://facebook.com/pearlthepackard/

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Kirtie
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Re: R9 Overdrive Repair

Post by Kirtie » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:27 pm

Step Thirteen: Finishing up!

I regret that I never did get a photo of the reverse plunger with the spring on it. I apologize, I'm simply not taking the overdrive apart to remedy the situation. ;)

Once the overdrive case and the transmission are mounted together and the bolts torqued, I hand-turned the input shaft (pretending I was an engine with no horsepower) and listened for any odd whirs, bangs, or clicks. Unfortunately, with a brand-new main shaft, all of the gears were stiff, and I couldn't spin it very easily.

Stiff and painful or not, I didn't hear/feel anything that indicated something was wrong.

Since completing this, I've filled the transmission with oil and spun it numerous times. As you may expect, the entire unit began to turn more easily- though it's still not EASY... I don't expect/want it to be. (Too easy means something isn't tight enough...)

To everyone who's read this whole blog post, if there's something you see/did see and want some clarification, I'm more than happy to help as I can. Perhaps I even have a photo to share with you about it.

Thanks for reading!! I'll post a follow-up on the successful (or heaven forbid unsuccessful) test drive in the weeks to follow. On to rewiring!!
Attachments
IMG_0521.jpg
It's a little difficult to see in this photo, but it's necessary to align the shift rail (round), reverse plunger ("L"-shaped), and the roller cage assembly into the tail shaft all at the same time... at the same time as making sure you don't damage the brand-new gasket.
IMG_0523.jpg
High Tech leveling devices were used frequently while trying to line up the transmission and overdrive cases... :-)
IMG_0525.jpg
If you've ever watched anything about the Apollo space missions, I have to believe that this is akin to docking the modules together while in orbit... The roller cage assembly on its way to interfacing with the tail shaft assembly, which is mounted in the case
IMG_0526.jpg
Closer... now to line up the gasket and continue...
IMG_0528.jpg
Very close now... gasket is lined up, and the reverse plunger is also lined up (you can see the correct hole for it in the adapter plate)
IMG_0529.jpg
Disco!
********** KIRT LIEDAHL **********

1949 Packard 2272 Super Eight Touring Sedan ("Pearl")
http://facebook.com/pearlthepackard/

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Kirtie
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Re: R9 Overdrive Repair

Post by Kirtie » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:31 am

Update:

I had a sticky synchro, which barred me from doing any real kind of test drive until lately.

While the transmission works and feels MUCH better than it did (no more pulling out of gear in low, no more clutch chatter, etc) I still have no overdrive.
Which is more than a little frustrating.

I'm working on this on a different post here in the Forums, so I won't take too much space reporting on it, but I've found a couple of mistakes already:
1) I didn't have the correct lead connected from the governor. I was using the one for the Electromatic Clutch. Oops. Solved.
2) I had forgotten to connect one of the leads (I rewired the whole car) to the lockout lever under the dash, so it couldn't have had power. I caught that well before the
the test drive, though. Just keeping it real! Ha

I'm almost certain it's electrical at this point. I'm going to check the continuity of the wiring harness I made for the overdrive solenoid and make sure everything that's supposed to have power does.
********** KIRT LIEDAHL **********

1949 Packard 2272 Super Eight Touring Sedan ("Pearl")
http://facebook.com/pearlthepackard/

DrMorbius
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Re: R9 Overdrive Repair

Post by DrMorbius » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:47 am

Kirt, have you been successful by now with your overdrive? Inquiring minds, you know.

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Kirtie
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Re: R9 Overdrive Repair

Post by Kirtie » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:16 pm

DrMorbius: I JUST THIS VERY AFTERNOON drove Pearl using the newly working overdrive!

There is a concern, though... Here's the quick background:

Before the cataclysmic failure of the overdrive, I had never been able to get the solenoid to seal to the case correctly. It always, ALWAYS dripped 80/90 on my garage floor. When I took it apart following the failure, I investigated why, and discovered that someone had apparently tried to use a home-made gasket, torqued the day lights out of the bolts and warped the base of the solenoid unit. I straightened it the best I could with clamps and a piece of stout flat iron (not bad if I do say so myself) but then noticed that there is a tiny hole in the solenoid base itself that must be there to release condensation or something. There was a path for the gear lube to splash up there, however unlikely, and drip out again.

When I rebuilt the drivetrain, I bought the gasket set from Kanter (EXCELLENT) and saw there was only the small "D" gasket for the solenoid, nothing inside to slow/stop the gear lube from going up into the base of the thing, however unlikely. So I cut two teeny paper "O" gaskets out of some thin gasket material and put them around the shaft where it meets the base of the solenoid. I put it all back together and tested the seal by leaning the transmission, correctly filled with 80/90, so that if the solenoid seal wasn't good it would almost certainly drip.

It remained, and still remains, dry and clean as a whistle.

However- I think I have complicated the issue, as I think the solenoid is slower to respond than it should be. When I'm driving the car, I get the overdrive-ready light (now that I put it on the correct lead on the governor, thank you Howard56!!) at around 30 mph (not 23) and need to very easily release the power for it to click into service, which takes a few seconds. (Fine by me as long as its working!). Of more concern to me is when I'm coming to a stop, I know the car is freewheeling all the way to 0 MPH, and I have been under the (perhaps ignorant) impression it should start pulling down under 20 MPH or so.

Note that I have driven 100,000 miles at least in trucks equipped with overdrive, so while I know how to operate them in large scale, this is the first passenger vehicle I've ever operated that has OD in it. So it could be behaving correctly and I just dont realize it.

The unit operates perfectly, no clacks, bangs, etc- just a gentle "click" when the solenoid clicks into action. The overdrive light goes out when the car is in OD, as it should.

So thank you, DrMorbius, for asking about her- I logged in to write this post and noticed yours. It's great to know people are keeping an eye open for it!!
********** KIRT LIEDAHL **********

1949 Packard 2272 Super Eight Touring Sedan ("Pearl")
http://facebook.com/pearlthepackard/

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