1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

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1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Dave Czirr » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:24 am

Does anyone know anything about this car? It was on eBay a few years ago but I failed to make any notes about it, other than recovering the photo. Factory sponsored - perhaps, perhaps not. Derham or Henney, probably though Dietrich was active at the time and is possible as well. It appears that both the front and rear doors have been lengthened about 3 inches and wheelbase extended to perhaps 133 inches, plus a lengthened roof and formal rear window treatment. This has been estimated by overlaying a photo of a stock 2552 Patrician.

If anyone knows anything about it, I'd appreciate very much hearing from you.

Dave
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by BigKev » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:39 am

I am going to say Henny based on their 1953 offering:

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Dave Czirr
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Dave Czirr » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:52 am

UPDATE. Some diligent researching by Robert Neal has unearthed some more current pictures of the car, reputedly built for the President of Champion Spark Plugs. Unfortunately no body# and a photo that shows the VN plate lacks enough resolution to read clearly. The grille was at some point updated to the 53/54 senior grille. Some of the photos are shown below, plus some additional photos courtesy of Stuart Blond. Coachbuilder still not identified but at least we do now have a vehicle number, in the 52 Patrician series.
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Dave Czirr
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Dave Czirr » Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:19 am

EUREKA! Thanks to some diligent sleuthing by Stuart Blond the car has been located. It's obviously beyond anything but the most herculean restoration efforts, but it's just a few miles from me and I'll be examining it next weekend. No identification of the coachbuilder yet but perhaps that will be found during my visit. The vehicle number and thief-proof number have been recorded, a low-numbered Patrician and the lowest yet-known thief-proof number for 1952 (possibly construction started in 1951). It's possible that the thief-proof number was never associated with a Patrician but rather with a club sedan as the longer front doors suggest that the coachbuilding may have begun with a club sedan body forward of the B pillars. This hypothesis is negated however by the Briggs body tag # which is a Patrician number. If the car is indeed a Derham, it's hoped there is some record of it in the Derham archives.
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kens53clip
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by kens53clip » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:47 pm

FWIW I tend to lean towards Derham rather than Henney primarily because the small privacy rear window and vinyl treatment seems to have been Derham's signature treatment at that time. I would refer you to the Winter 2007, Number 129 Packard Cormorant magazine containing an article on Malcolm Miller's 1952 Derham on page 14. Mr. Miller's 1952 Derham does seem to have a similar rear window treatment, a division, and does have the 4 "bottle openers" or whatever they are called on the rear fenders. However, Mr. Miller's Derham seems to have smaller doors and not be stretched as much and does not appear to have jump seats as compared to the car in question. It would be interesting to know if the car in question has any trace of the Derham nameplate being or having been on the front fender like Mr. Miller's car.
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by kens53clip » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:57 am

Maybe it is just the picture or my imagination but looking at the more recent picture of the passenger side on the passenger side upper front fender above the stainless trim, aren't there two circular blemishes in the paint close together looking like there might have been holes there filled in with lead or bondo or something where the Derham nameplate might have been?
Ken
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Dave Czirr » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:28 am

Thanks Ken. I did notice that myself and enlarged the photo but couldn't really see anything definitive. But I'll be seeing the car on Saturday after our viewing of the Kanter Bros. collection and will surely report back on what I find.

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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by kens53clip » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:06 pm

Thanks Dave!
I'm looking forward to your report!
Ken
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Dave Czirr » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:31 am

Yesterday I had the opportunity to give the car a close examination. Unfortunately, no indication of the coachbuilder could be found though the more I look at it the more I suspect Derham. We looked everywhere, the usual locations and then under the carpet front and rear, on the divider, on the door sills (which are not standard Packard sills), etc. The paint discoloration pattern on the front right fender above the trim line which looked suspiciously like it might have held a Derham script was a red herring, just two small divets in the outer (repainted) paint layer, irregularly shaped and not holes that had been filled. The front seat appears to have a period seat cover, I had expected to see black leather beneath it but it is tan broadcloth. It was interesting on the roof where all the paint has failed and revealed the seams and leadwork to see how the roof was pieced together.

An earlier suspicion that the coachbuilding may have started with a club sedan nose is pretty much discounted by the Patrician-series Briggs body tag though almost certainly the front doors are from a club sedan. Unfortunately too much paint remained on the back doors to see clearly how they had been extended. The owner has hopes(?) of a restoration and has a Patrician donor car available. Hope you enjoy the photos.
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kens53clip
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by kens53clip » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:57 pm

Thanks, Dave, for checking it out and giving us a report. Too bad we can't credit any coachbuilder definitely. A very interesting car and an ambitious restoration project for sure. Hope the current owner succeeds in restoring it!
Ken
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