1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

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Dave Czirr
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Dave Czirr » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:09 am

Board of Director's meeting minutes for 1951 and 1952 have been reviewed, no mention of any "special" cars or chassis.

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Dave Czirr » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:09 am

I wrote to A.O. Smith's corporate historian/archivist today looking for information about any 149" Packard frames which might have been made well before the 1953 LWB models were introduced and might have been shipped to Packard, Derham, Henney or anyone else. Another Packard historian received favorable information from Smith about an earlier frame, but I see by SMith's website that they sold the automotive frame business about 15 years ago, and chances are the historic material went with the sale, if it was retained at all. Smith sold the business to Tower Automotive whose website is now inactive, so I'm not optomistic.....but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Off to see the car again tomorrow to get some more measurements, confirm wheelbase, door widths, wheel size, and to take a good look and see there are any clues about how the doors were lengthened. Will advise and probably more photos to follow.

It's beginning to look more and more that there were two LWB 52 Patricians, coachbuilders and circumstances (factory sponsored or individual commissions) unknown on both, and that the one located here in NJ which has been photographed in this post may actually be the car shown below, and not the one shown in the first post on this thread. I doubt the car was RHD, the negative was probably reveresed in printing. Fascinating little bit of history here and much fun researching it.
Attachments
52 LWB Patrician.jpg

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Dave Czirr » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:56 am

Another visit today. Still no identification of the coachbuilder but still strongly suspect Derham. Some observations:

ENGINE#. K600530. Not as low a number as the BDN or VN would suggest, perhaps a replacement? It has been retrofitted with a 4-bbl intake manifold (carburetor missing)

DOOR LENGTHS. Neglecting small fractions, same on both sides. Rears are 50", fronts are 48". Can't say if the front is the same as a club sedan, don't have that number handy, but the front on my 56 Caribbean measures 48+. Doors on the donor car (which it turns out is a 51 Patrician) are 37 rear and 39-1/2 front. Measurements taken at the widest point, about at the point of the side door trim. If you add the differences in door lengths to the standard 127" wheelbase you get about 149", which is what I measured the wheelbase to be.

DOOR CONSTRUCTION. Left rear door had the interior trim panel missing; looking thru the two large access ports for the window lift hardware I could not see any signs of a seam or interior construction. Feeling along the bottom ledge of the right door, I felt what I thought was a seam weld about 12-1/2 inches from the front, but when I checked the other door there was no such feature. Perhaps an anomoly.

WHEELS. Some one had suggested this might be on a commercial Henney chassis which used 16"wheels, but the wheels, presumed to be original to the car, are 15".

SEATS: Front seat is hydraulic power, but appears to be up and down only. Rear seat has a handle protruding from beneath is, apparently for some sort of manual adjustment.

DASHBOARD: A couple of extra switches mounted to the left of the steering column. One appears to obviously be some aftermarket item, but he other has a correct Packard style knob - it's a mechanical switch such as might have used a Bowden cable (no longer there). Purpose unknown. Instrument panel fascia not covered with leather or leatherette as I have seen in some 53-54 Derhams.

IDENTIFICATION: Still not a sign of the coachbuilder's identity, but perhaps a clue to the car's past is the rear license plate which we will try to track down.

GLOVEBOX. No documents inside, but there was what appears to be a Packard steering wheel horn emblem, not like the car would be expected to have. The steering wheel on the car had no horn button/emblem.

WINDOW REVEALS. Wood grained over steel.

A few pictures follow, note the rear seat adjustment handle and the jump seat hinge.
Attachments
52 NJ LWB 006 sm.jpg
52 NJ LWB 007 sm.jpg
52 NJ LWB 008 sm.jpg
52 NJ LWB 010 sm.jpg
52 NJ LWB 012 sm.jpg
52 NJ LWB 019 sm.jpg

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Dave Czirr » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:57 am

Good view of a very plush carpet material not unlike Wilton's Mosstred, and the odd plastic emblem fromthe glove box.
Attachments
52 NJ LWB 021 sm.jpg
52 NJ LWB 025 sm.jpg

kens53clip
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by kens53clip » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:26 am

Could be wrong but the circular object in the glove compartment looks like the central part of the trunk's "Napoleon's Hat" chrome ornament.
Ken

EDIT: Go to http://emblemagic.com/packard.htm and check out the 1951-1952 Packard Mayfair, 200 trunk plastic emblem insert.
Last edited by kens53clip on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ken
kens53clip
1953 Packard Clipper Deluxe 4 dr. sedan

Robert Neal
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Robert Neal » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:31 am

The horn button emblem is, I am sure, something that got thrown in somewhere along the line. One of the earlier pictures of the car when in its old junk yard location years ago shown the steering wheel with its original horn button and emblem. It is a low res picture but i inhanced it as best I could and it seems to have a standard center emblem for a 1952. Picture attached. Robert Neal
Attachments
spoon_and_cherry_050-a.JPG

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Dave Czirr » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:29 am

Thanks for the comments on what I had erroneously thought might be a horn button - I should have known better.

Here's a photo I forgot to post, the vanity cabinet in the back of the division. Perhaps if someone has a Derham of 51-53 vintage and has an identical cabinet (or identical jump seat hinges) that might go a way towards confirming Derham as the builder.
Attachments
52 NJ LWB 014 sm.jpg

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Dave Czirr » Wed May 02, 2012 3:59 pm

I received a response today to my inquiry to A. O. Smith asking for information about any 149" Packard frames shipped prior to 1953 model introduction. Unfortunately they indicated that all their historical records were transferred to Tower Automotive when they sold the auto frame business in 1997. So looks like a letter to Tower is next, assuming they are still in business (their website is defunct).

I also wrote to Champion Spark Plug inquiring about any possible connection between the car and the President or CEO of Champion during 1951-1952. Will keep you posted. Here's hoping the trail hasn't gone cold.

Randy Berger
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Re: 1952 Patrician - Derham or Henney?

Post by Randy Berger » Fri May 04, 2012 5:22 pm

Great bit of sleuthing Dave. I did notice the 51 trunk emblem was not a horn button.
I think that emblem was 51 only. Our 52 was totally different.
I hope you can find more clues on the trail. Very interesting subject.

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