1941 12 Passenger Limo

General topics, not covered elsewhere, of all things Packard.
temp1234
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1941 12 Passenger Limo

Post by temp1234 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:29 am

Do you know how many 12 passenger limo's Henney produced for Packard in 1941?

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1941 12 Passenger Limo

Post by Dave Czirr » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:34 am

Some Henney production data can be found in "The Professional Packard" chapter of the KImes-edited "Packard - A History of the Motor Car and the Company". As I interpret it, it does not detail 1941 Henney production by particular body style or purpose, but does report 1200 Henney/Packard produced on the 1901A, 1903A and 1903AB chassis (120 and 160 models). This would include funeral service vehicles, ambulances both commerical and made for the US military, airport limousines, and other speciality Henney vehicles. A note accompanying the table says the number is an estimate derived from an analysis of vehicle number plates on surviving vehicles.

Best I can do, perhaps someone else has more information. You might also try The Professional Car Society forum and see if anyone there has better information.

PACKARDAPL
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Re: 1941 HENNEY 12 Passenger Limo

Post by PACKARDAPL » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:30 am

My data was the basis of those listed in the new Henney Motor Co book by MacPhereson (a very good book). I did an anlysis
of known data, photos, & information in Henney/Packard publications. Based on current data, I estimate around 60 12 passinger
Airport buses were built. This would have been largely 1938 (partial yr) 1939, 1940, 1941 and 1942 (partial yr). One way or
another I can tablulate abt 35 Henneys of this style. From employee information, it appears that the APL bodies were at the
absolute limit in size that the plant could handle. (Had to fit in freight elevator). The body was taken to the street level and
mated to the chassis "on the sidewalk"!!! They appearently could only work on one of these in the shop at a time and dividing up
production against weeks in production at Henney, the body fabrication seems to be around 3 weeks,so something like 15 to 17 a
year maximum;times years;which gives around 50 or 60 possible units. As these were very expensive: they likely didnt have one building
at all times. Total production in 1942 seems to be 7, with a likely delivery date of June 1942. The last ones certainly required a govt
priority. There is only one Henney of any year left(my 1942 160)but there are a few of the non-custom, slice & section varieties. Non Henney
Packards surviving include; A restored 1942 fitzjohn conversion in NM, a unrstored standard carriage 38 in CA and a unknown builder
conversion of a 49 in Colorado (its for sale). In postwar years, vehicle shortages prompted some ambitious shops to combine a two older hearse/sedans into "one-offs" single long wheelbase units. Merged; they often just looked strange and they saw limited service before the
junkyard reclaimed them. The Henney survivor rate is abt 1% of production. A number of the unidentified Henneys were almost certainly
were contract government sales, including many of the 1941s. Originally, these APL limos were intended to be airline ground transportation in
the bigger cities, American airlines consulted with Henney on the initial specifications. As to 1941 production, I suspect there were about 15
built, but I could only account for around 5 (non-military) of them. The last 1941 APL known was a rough unit that had been rusting a long time
in Eastern Indiana. From its description, it was one unit from the Chicago area "Bluebird Lines" (serving that airport.) Two different collectors
reported seeing it there in the early 1970s--none later--so it is assumed lost now. (see my 2010 APL Cornmorant article for more info). The
APL is a very heavy--leaded beast-almost 25' long and a heck of a paperweight. KEN CHAPMAN

Packards42
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Re: 1941 12 Passenger Limo

Post by Packards42 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:46 pm

Great information, i been looking for a prewar APL for several years, one of the fabricate 1940-1938 cross over built up job came up on ebay a few years back. I think it was recent work in progress.

Do you know where Henny got the doors, as i have extra 42 parts car 180 available, and was considering building as retirement project next year or year after.

Packards42
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Re: 1941 12 Passenger Limo

Post by Packards42 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:09 pm

I am finch up my last pipeline project in the next 2 months (it in Vietnam) , planning to take a year off, maybe full retirement, that depend on how healthcare works out under the state program with Obamacare, then I getting back into the Hobby. i still looking for airport limo, or even a ambulance or hearst, 160 inch wheel base, for 6 door henny replicate.

PACKARDAPL
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Re: 1941 12 Passenger Limo

Post by PACKARDAPL » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:47 am

Your factory built Packard AirPort by Henney was 8 doors- 4 to a side. The after market AP's were 4 on one side & two on the
other. The reason for this is the length & weight of the AP. The side with the 2 doors would have a stiffener panel for
bracing to reduce body sag. This was often a bottom truss brace; plus a top brace that also served as a luggage rack. (Like
the Fitzjohn spliced ones. ) Packard supplied a very heavy one piece frame of the correct length {205" wb} so it did not have
those problems. As to Henney doors, the #1 & #2 doors were similar to those of a Henney Hearse of those years. #3 was
similar to #2 and the rear door #4 was completely different. {I'm referring to 1941 & 1942 Henney models--might be same
back to 38}, I think these would be some different than the standard 120 or 160s/180s. The majority of the HenneyAPs seem to
have been the 160 models. They were 2003ABs (42) didnt have a model #, but were designated 1942 DELUXE. This meant
it was a custom car built to specific order. Can supply some other data on them.

Mikelswon124
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Re: 1941 12 Passenger Limo

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Dave Czirr
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Re: 1941 12 Passenger Limo

Post by Dave Czirr » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:14 am

PLEASE! No commercial advertising.

JWL115C
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Re: 1941 12 Passenger Limo

Post by JWL115C » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:54 pm

I wrote a reply on this earlier today, but it did not get loaded. Here it is again. The National Museum of Nuclear Science & History in Albuquerque, New Mexico recently recovered and restored an 8-door 1941 Clipper Limo. It was restored for appearance only and is not a running chassis. They have it displayed. It was supposed to be used to transport staff from the railway station in Lamy to Santa Fe, and then on to the Manhattan Project site at Los Alamos. Whether the Limo was ever driven down to the Trinity test site is questionable. It is an odd looking duck, but an long one to be sure. This vehicle was discussed on this website and others when the project was progressing. You may want to contact the museum for more information on this.

(o{}o)

PACKARDAPL
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Re: 1941 12 Passenger Limo

Post by PACKARDAPL » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:00 pm

YES, This 41==actually it looks more like a 42 Clipper==is now on display there. There is a photo or two of it in my article on
Henneys back in 2010. This is a Fitzjohn conversion unit rescued out of a salvage yard. They took an ordinary Clipper and cut
it in two and built a center section. The unrestored photo tells you how it was done. In a letter from them a couple yrs ago, they
said that virtually all the center section was NON metal--fiberboard--plywood etc. This accounted for the poor condition as it was
found. I didn't know that they had only restored the body & not the drive-train. The airport limos are strange looking vehicles alright.

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