1949 Packard Monte Carlo - Hood Ornament Identification

General topics, not covered elsewhere, of all things Packard.
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Geoff Hacker
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:56 pm

1949 Packard Monte Carlo - Hood Ornament Identification

Post by Geoff Hacker » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:10 pm

Hi gang and Happy Holidays....

We're in the process of researching our recently acquired 1949 Packard Monte Carlo convertible. To this end, we’ve assembled some folks who have experience in this area which include George Hamlin, Leon Dixon, Bud Juneau, Thomas McPherson, Alden Jewell, Paul Cruce and others who have historical and deep knowledge of Packard, Henney, Richard Arbib and Coachbuilding.

We’ve been able to push our research forward and recently located a person – Peter Krell – who owned the car in the late 1980s. He was able to forward photos of the car from that time frame and with his help and others we will continue to pursue earlier owners too.

One of the issues that came up did so in close examination of photographs of both the hardtop Monte Carlo and the Convertible. Specifically, the hood ornaments of each share identical characteristics. What we found is that the chrome wings were partially cut on each and acrylic / Lucite was installed on each.

For the Monte Carlo hardtop, the photos show the acrylic to be clear (or nearly so) in the historic photos. For the Monte Carlo convertible, the acrylic is red. Both cars and hood ornaments can be seen – along with close-up photos – in the images below.

I need your help to identify if this is something folks have seen before. In talking to some of my Packard friends and….looking at many images on the internet, I could not locate a similar hood ornament. However, that doesn’t mean that they were not built by a company in a small run (limited production).

Have any of you seen these hood ornaments below? Do any still exist on cars that some of you have seen or may have?

The hood ornaments in question do not have full Lucite/acrylic wings – those are common and easy to find. The hood ornaments below are only partially acrylic which makes them very interesting to me.

Thanks for any help you can lend and have a great holiday.

Geoff Hacker
http://www.UndiscoveredClassics.com
Attachments
1949 Monte Carlo Hardtop.jpg
1949 Monte Carlo Hardtop
Close up of 1949 Monte Carlo Hardtop Hood Ornament.jpg
Close up of 1949 Monte Carlo Hardtop Hood Ornament
1949 Monte Carlo Convertible.jpg
1949 Monte Carlo Convertible
Close up of 1949 Monte Carlo Convertible Hood Ornament.jpg
Close up of 1949 Monte Carlo Convertible Hood Ornament

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1949 Packard Monte Carlo - Hood Ornament Identification

Post by Dave Czirr » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:13 am

I'll be more than anxious to hear what your research reveals on these interesting cars.
The photo is of very poor quality but I can safely say I've never seen any similar cormorant wings.

Geoff Hacker
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:56 pm

Re: 1949 Packard Monte Carlo - Hood Ornament Identification

Post by Geoff Hacker » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:28 am

Dave....

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's an interesting research project but the folks helping are the best so we'll see what we come up with.

I couldn't find one of these hood ornaments via research. But the collective experience of the Packard folks here may be able to shed more light on this piece. It's worth learning more since both Monte Carlos share the identical hood ornament. There are other body changes on the convertible we have that are in line with the hardtop Monte Carlo too.

All thoughts are appreciated and thanks again for sharing.

Geoff

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1949 Packard Monte Carlo - Hood Ornament Identification

Post by Dave Czirr » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:17 am

Geoff, I'm sure I've done it before but I thought I'd go back and see how the vehicle, theft-proof, Briggs, and motor numbers fell into place along with all the other 22nd Series data I have. Nothing really pops out, I don't have data on the immediately adjacent bodies by body serial or theft-proof numbers. The next 2279 that I do have data on, #9755, was built as a 1949 model year car.

Geoff Hacker
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Re: 1949 Packard Monte Carlo - Hood Ornament Identification

Post by Geoff Hacker » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:31 am

Dave...is there any additional data I can get you from my car that would help?

Also...I thought I would bring it to the Nationals in July (West Lafayette, Indiana) next year if people would like to see it before its restoration. That might be fun...

Thanks for your help :-)

Geoff

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Leeedy
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Re: 1949 Packard Monte Carlo - Hood Ornament Identification

Post by Leeedy » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:52 am

Geoff Hacker wrote:Hi gang and Happy Holidays....

We're in the process of researching our recently acquired 1949 Packard Monte Carlo convertible. To this end, we’ve assembled some folks who have experience in this area which include George Hamlin, Leon Dixon, Bud Juneau, Thomas McPherson, Alden Jewell, Paul Cruce and others who have historical and deep knowledge of Packard, Henney, Richard Arbib and Coachbuilding.

We’ve been able to push our research forward and recently located a person – Peter Krell – who owned the car in the late 1980s. He was able to forward photos of the car from that time frame and with his help and others we will continue to pursue earlier owners too.

One of the issues that came up did so in close examination of photographs of both the hardtop Monte Carlo and the Convertible. Specifically, the hood ornaments of each share identical characteristics. What we found is that the chrome wings were partially cut on each and acrylic / Lucite was installed on each.

For the Monte Carlo hardtop, the photos show the acrylic to be clear (or nearly so) in the historic photos. For the Monte Carlo convertible, the acrylic is red. Both cars and hood ornaments can be seen – along with close-up photos – in the images below.

I need your help to identify if this is something folks have seen before. In talking to some of my Packard friends and….looking at many images on the internet, I could not locate a similar hood ornament. However, that doesn’t mean that they were not built by a company in a small run (limited production).

Have any of you seen these hood ornaments below? Do any still exist on cars that some of you have seen or may have?

The hood ornaments in question do not have full Lucite/acrylic wings – those are common and easy to find. The hood ornaments below are only partially acrylic which makes them very interesting to me.

Thanks for any help you can lend and have a great holiday.

Geoff Hacker
http://www.UndiscoveredClassics.com
Hello,

This ornament was sold in the aftermarket in a number of variations. J.C. Whitney, Western Auto and Pep Boys were some of the retailers that sold them. Most of these were made by an old ornament maker, GEM out of Chicago area. They had dozens of design variations on the Packard bird including direct copies. They called their versions "swans." What you have here appears to be a combination of their copies #517 (illuminated) and #217 (chrome). I have seen this exact ornament as in your photos on a Packard in Detroit (my neighbor had one and I believe I saw another in Indian Village) back in the 1950s... no question about it. There were other companies that also made these ornaments.

I do have some GEM catalogues but I don't have the catalogue that shows your exact version. There were lots of them over the years. The company is still in business and all Dick Arbib had to do was pick up the phone and a box of them would have been sent over to Henney. I still have biz cards in my files of individuals I once knew at GEM. When I get time and have access to my biz files, I'll try to follow up more on this.

Hope this helps.

1935Packard
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Re: 1949 Packard Monte Carlo - Hood Ornament Identification

Post by 1935Packard » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:05 pm

Leeedy writes:

This ornament was sold in the aftermarket in a number of variations. J.C. Whitney, Western Auto and Pep Boys were some of the retailers that sold them. Most of these were made by an old ornament maker, GEM out of Chicago area. They had dozens of design variations on the Packard bird including direct copies. They called their versions "swans." What you have here appears to be a combination of their copies #517 (illuminated) and #217 (chrome). I have seen this exact ornament as in your photos on a Packard in Detroit (my neighbor had one and I believe I saw another in Indian Village) back in the 1950s... no question about it. There were other companies that also made these ornaments.

I do have some GEM catalogues but I don't have the catalogue that shows your exact version. There were lots of them over the years. The company is still in business and all Dick Arbib had to do was pick up the phone and a box of them would have been sent over to Henney. I still have biz cards in my files of individuals I once knew at GEM. When I get time and have access to my biz files, I'll try to follow up more on this.


Great explanation, Leeedy, thanks for that. I gather that explains the hood ornament that was on my '35 in a picture I have of it from 1951. Here's a close-up:
Screen Shot 2018-12-09 at 1.01.58 PM.png
(189.78 KiB) Downloaded 367 times
Looks like a match with the GEM ornaments from around that time, at least to me.

Geoff Hacker
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:56 pm

Re: 1949 Packard Monte Carlo - Hood Ornament Identification

Post by Geoff Hacker » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:53 am

Dave Czirr...

I just saw the note in the PAC Bulletin on your induction into the PAC Hall of Fame. Congratulations on such a nice honor at this time of year too - the holidays.

I appreciate your help in the short time I've known you and understand why you have been honored in such a way.

Thanks for all that you do and...thanks for your help with my little research project too.

Best to you and happy holidays...

Geoff

Dave Czirr
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Re: 1949 Packard Monte Carlo - Hood Ornament Identification

Post by Dave Czirr » Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:45 am

Geoff, thanks so much for the kind words, very appreciated! I was more than a bit surprised and humbled when I received word of it, seems to me like there are others more deserving. Regardless, I remember quite clearly when I started in this hobby more than 50 years ago, how willing the "elders" in the hobby were then to help me along with getting immersed into it all, and I just try to keep that ball rolling.

Dave

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Ozstatman
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:58 pm
Location: Bowral, Southern Highlands NSW, Australia

Re: 1949 Packard Monte Carlo - Hood Ornament Identification

Post by Ozstatman » Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:50 am

Dave,

Congratulations on your induction.

A very worthy honour for someone who is so willing to freely share their Packard knowledge, expertise and experience with others.
Mal
Currently - '50 Packard Eight Touring Sedan
Previously - '41 120 Club Coupe(Sold October 2017) & '38 Eight Touring Sedan(Sold July 2009)
Bowral, Southern Highlands, NSW Australia

"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

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