push pin in the transmission

General topics, not covered elsewhere, of all things Packard.
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gdestephano
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:07 pm

push pin in the transmission

Post by gdestephano » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:23 pm

Almost afraid to say. 1951 200 AT. While pulling out ( getting a hold of) the copper breather screen that's on top of the transmission from the access port inside the car in order to put ATF inside, I was using a plastic push pin in the screen mesh to pull it up and out of the way if that makes any sense. I dropped the plastic push pin inside the port of the transmission which has metal pin inside plastic (old guy with shaky hands)
MY Question, what would be the best steps in order to troubleshoot getting the push pin before completely removing the transmission for a complete tear down if needed?
So far Ive,
removed trans pan
probed with light and camera, top and bottom.
put in neutral and rotated driveline a bit hoping it might fall to the bottom.

Thinking the next steps might be,
1. removal of control valve assembly? never did this before looks easy enough, not sure if lets me see inside any better? Probe again with light and camera.
2. block up the rear of the trans lip at pan, remove driveline, and pull everything else out up to the pan area if at all possible as far as I can go in order to possibly find the pin. Zero experience in this and really don't want to do it.
3. randomly inserting about dozen magnets inside trans, close it all up. Go for a 20 mile drive to pick up the metal pin as it falls down (drop the pan again (remove all plastic crumbs from the push pin, look for the pin. No pin, just hope for the best keep on driving for another 100 miles, do it one more time? Looks like there's lot's of room next to all of the gears where something foreign could easy bounce around and find its way to the bottom of the pan.
Any advise greatly appreciated, From anyone!
I didn't even look at other trans topic's. There can only be one bonehead on each planet in each galaxy.
Gregory

Howard56
Posts: 1117
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am

Re: push pin in the transmission

Post by Howard56 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:39 am

There were two versions of the breather that could have been on the Ultra for 51 but looking at the cross sectional I don't think removing the control valve on either one will give much advantage. If you have the early version the pin would have fallen inside the breather assy and should be confined. It sounds as if you have the later version where it would have fallen inside.

If it is inside, the pin probably fell on the governor or speedometer drive gear and was then lodged in one of the cavities around the rear pump or park gear assy. Possibly removing the governor assy or speedo adapter would allow the pin to be seen from the side and caught by a magnet (assuming the metal in the pin is magnetic and not stainless steel) or would jar it loose to fall down to the pan. The caveat to that approach would be the governor or adapter is positioned fairly high and surrounded by the frame so there is no space in that area to get your head in a position to directly look inside. It might take a mirror or use of a small inexpensive inspection camera to see inside and even then it is not a given.

As a last resort before removing the entire trans you might put the pan back on so as to be able to support the engine and trans and then disconnect the drive shaft in order to remove the transmission tail shaft assy and parking gear to view and access the area from the rear.
Attachments
50-early 51.jpg
later 51-54.jpg

gdestephano
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:07 pm

Re: push pin in the transmission

Post by gdestephano » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:45 pm

Howard,
Thank you for the quick response. The trans is later style and the pin is metal. Sounds like if I'm reading this correctly , I'll be removing the governor assy and or speedo adapter, probe with light with mirror, possible see what a magnet can do.

Last question and your thoughts, knowing that it might have fallen on the governor or speedometer drive gear and possibly lodged on a cavities around the rear pump or park gear assy. would my #3 randomly inserting about dozen magnets inside trans, close it all up. Go for a 20 mile drive, drop the pan again, remove all plastic crumbs from the push pin, pull the pin from the magnet hopefully, be a bad idea? or just man-up and pull off the back of the trans.

Howard56
Posts: 1117
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am

Re: push pin in the transmission

Post by Howard56 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:52 pm

Hopefully you can see enough by pulling and looking thru the side holes but as I mentioned space is very limited by the frame in that area so it may not provide much visual access.

What I would be concerned about with driving and any kind of steel foreign object possibly being around the speedo or governor gears is probable damage if it jarred loose and did wind up caught in them. Your car should have metal gears but even so trying to mesh something like a steel pin into close tolerance parts could cause damage. Add to that for 53 they changed to nylon gears and discontinued the earlier metal gears. The nylon gears were retrofittable to the earlier Ultras and if for some reason one or more of the parts was changed back in the day and a nylon gear was installed then that soft gear would surely be destroyed by the pin. If something did get damaged and need replacing Kanter might have NOS but again maybe not or possibly not the proper gear for your rear axle ratio.

Here is a photo of the nylon drive gear for the speedo and governor along with instructions on replacing it properly if you do wind up needing to pull it during the search.
Attachments
drive gear.jpg

gdestephano
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:07 pm

Re: push pin in the transmission

Post by gdestephano » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:02 pm

Thanks again Howard. I probably should have mention from the beginning maybe no big deal, but I did see the push pin sitting on top of the gears after falling in. When going down after it somehow it was pushed over to the passenger side of the transmission.

Howard56
Posts: 1117
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am

Re: push pin in the transmission

Post by Howard56 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:44 am

Governor is on the passenger side and has a fairly wide body so perhaps the pin was pushed over and is wedged between the governor body and side of the case or other component. I would still remove it before driving.

gdestephano
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:07 pm

Re: push pin in the transmission

Post by gdestephano » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:47 am

Sounds like good advice Howard, as much as I was looking for the answer, I once heard of few fellows who loss there hearing aids in a transmission rebuild and it worked just find, looks like I'm living under my car for while. I'll let the wife know where to send the food.
Cheers....

gdestephano
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:07 pm

Re: push pin in the transmission

Post by gdestephano » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:56 pm

Okay Howard back to the well one last question, may or may not be a big deal. The arm inside the transmission that connects to the shifter linkage going to the outside of the transmission. The arm is connected to a piston/plunger. I slightly moved the piston/plunger forward and back by hand and I did see the shifter rod rotate a little, I'm concern about hooking the linkage up later and it making a different's. FYI, car was in park.
Looking over the service manual pg 12 figure 35, looks like's it's the lower valve body plunger. thoughts?

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