1948 Standard 8 Overdrive Issue.

Discussions related to engines, transmissions, rear axles, suspension & steering.
Mistahnash
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: 1948 Standard 8 Overdrive Issue.

Post by Mistahnash » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:29 pm

I for some reason decided to try it with a 12v battery and the solenoid worked when I grounded terminal 5. Didn't think the 6v battery was bad but we are going to try replacing it and see if that helps. Its a old battery, unknown exactly how old. Guy gave it to us from in the corner of his garage when we got the car.

Howard56
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am

Re: 1948 Standard 8 Overdrive Issue.

Post by Howard56 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:08 pm

If the battery is able to start the car it should be OK for the OD.

It might be a good idea to check and clean all the wire connections to the OD relay and switches and use a point file or burnishing tool on the relay contacts. If still stock, there may be inline connectors under the car roughly in the area under the drivers feet that had known shorting and corrosion issues even when new. They are Wade connectors and if never worked on or taken apart can be a pain to get the tab to release and get the terminal out without damage. Moisture caused the metal to oxidize and if clamped close together supply enough corrosion to outright short and cause other problems with connectivity. Even if not shorted any increased resistance in the solenoid #4 wire could cause issues because the solenoid needs a lot of current to pull in.
Attachments
R9 schematic.jpg
connectors.jpg

Mistahnash
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: 1948 Standard 8 Overdrive Issue.

Post by Mistahnash » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:20 pm

Ok ill take a look at wade connectors and check the resistance on the wire leading to #4.


Thanks for all the info btw , its been a huge help.

Mistahnash
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: 1948 Standard 8 Overdrive Issue.

Post by Mistahnash » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:33 pm

Not sure if it is stock or not, found a connector its a barrel shape connector. Don't see a clip or anything just seems to either be twisted together or pushed together. Either way I cant seem to get it to come apart.

Mistahnash
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: 1948 Standard 8 Overdrive Issue.

Post by Mistahnash » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:05 am

Well I found an issue, im hoping its whats causing the issue. Number 3 terminal on the solenoid is only getting 5.56 volts. Number 4 is getting 7.6 volts. Its getting full voltage up to the plug under the car but not after. I tried cleaning the plug but it didn't seem to help. Going to try again then clean the terminal on the solenoid and see what happens.

Howard56
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am

Re: 1948 Standard 8 Overdrive Issue.

Post by Howard56 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:07 am

The voltage on terminal 3 is lower because it is reduced by passing thru the coil of the second relay before getting to the coil in the solenoid. The place you are measuring is between the two coils. With 7v going to terminal 4 measured at the solenoid it doesn't really sound like the plug is an issue -- at least not those two wires and the solenoid should be pulling in. With the voltages you mentioned the solenoid should be doing something so the problem may be inside the solenoid or OD. If you hear or feel the solenoid trying to do something there could be a mechanical issue in the OD preventing the plunger from moving.

If you do not feel or hear the solenoid, disconnect the wires from 3 and 4 and use an ohmmeter between each terminal with the solenoid case as ground. There should be a small resistance reading of some value on 3 and you should read an almost direct short on 4. If no reading on one terminal then the solenoid will need to come out and be disassembled. There is a set of contacts in the 4 side which could be a problem or a coil could be burned open.

Not sure how you are bringing in the relay to get the voltage but did you resolve the issue of directly grounding relay terminal 5 and having the relay come in? As a further check, since you are working under the car you can disconnect the wire going to the exposed rivet located about in the middle of the governor back and ground the wire heading to the plug and relay. The relay should energize and solenoid should come in (or voltage be present) just as if the governor had commanded it. If it does not there is a problem in that wire or one of the two switches before the relay. If it does energize the relay and solenoid with the wire grounded but not when driving, the governor is at fault.
Attachments
Governor bottom.jpg

Guillermo Durgin
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:49 am

Re: 1950 Club Sedan R-11 Overdrive Issue.

Post by Guillermo Durgin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:21 pm

Dear Packard owners,

I have a 1950 club sedan and am trying to get the OD working. Many of the OD parts have been inoperable for a long time due to engine heat, age, broken OD cable, etc. So I have begun replacing all the OD parts. I appreciate the responses in this thread. My inquiry revolves around the OD governor. Specifically, there are two wires from the OD governor, one goes to the solenoid and the other was cut off as it went thru a hole in the frame. I presume this is a ground wire, but have not checked for power with the key on. Does the OD governor have a ground wire as well as a wire to the solenoid? I'd appreciate guidance. Thanks.

G Durgin
Oakland, CA
Attachments
OD photo.pdf
(225.59 KiB) Downloaded 26 times

Guillermo Durgin
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:49 am

Re: 1950 Standard 8 R-11 Overdrive Issue.

Post by Guillermo Durgin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:26 pm

Here's a better photo.
Attachments
OD 2 Photo.pdf
(271.03 KiB) Downloaded 19 times

Howard56
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am

Re: 1948 Standard 8 Overdrive Issue.

Post by Howard56 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:00 pm

Here is the schematic for the R11 OD. The governors used until 51 had two wires as is shown in the left side photo in the post above your first one. One wire (EC) was unused and tucked aside if the car did not have the Electromatic clutch option. The governor contacts are in a typical Normally Open and Normally Closed configuration and are brought out on the two wires. Ground to the contact common terminal is provided by a screw which connects a metal strip on the back cover to the governor case which is in turn screwed into the OD case which is at ground. The screws holding the back to the case can loosen or corrode so check the one on the metal strip if you have no ground coming out of the solenoid.

The wire labeled EC in the photo is for the clutch. It is the normally closed contact and connected to ground when the car is starting out so the clutch components can work. It stays connected until the car reaches governor change speed which will be between 20-30 mph. As soon as that speed is reached the EC wire is disconnected from ground so the automatic clutch operation will no longer function unless a specific move is made by the operator to supply ground from another switch. At the governor speed change the OD wire is connected to ground in place of EC to bring in the relay and solenoid so the overdrive can function. With no Electromatic clutch, only the OD wire is of concern.

The item in your second photo is mostly the solenoid but the end of the governor is seen. The R9 OD which started this discussion has 4 wires on the solenoid while the R11 being much simpler electrically only has two wires at the solenoid. The governor wire does not directly connect to either of the solenoids but rather the wire goes into the loom and thru another switch in the R11 ends at the relay. The R9 and R11 solenoids are not interchangeable because of different lengths on the plunger stem that goes inside the OD case.
Attachments
R11 schematic.jpg

Guillermo Durgin
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:49 am

Re: 1948 Standard 8 Overdrive Issue.

Post by Guillermo Durgin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:06 pm

Very helpful. Thank you.

Post Reply