oil leak

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bakerallen
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:42 pm

oil leak

Post by bakerallen » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:13 pm

I now have my 47 Packard home and have driven a few miles. I'm very happy to say it seems fine except for a oil leak at the rear of the motor. I would very much like to have that fixed, but the mechanic that rebuilt the motor didn't seem to know what to do about it. The mechanic felt the oil was coming from the rear of the motor. That is correct, however he replaced the seal at the end of the crank shaft two times with no success. My knowledge is limited, but I don't think that is where the problem is. Is it possible a seal at the end of the cam can be the problem?
I have some other problems, but they are fairly minor and can be repaired over time. If I could fix the leak I would be a happy camper. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Dave Czirr
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Re: oil leak

Post by Dave Czirr » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:31 pm

What model is your '47? Better yet, what is the motor number?

UPDATE: Haven't heard back from you on which motor, or the motor number. The reason I asked is that you mentioned that the mechanic had replaced the rear seal twice, but the 21st Series (1947) Six and Eight don't have a conventional replaceable rear seal, only the Super Eight (356 ci) engine has a replaceable seal. The Six and Eight use a slinger intergral with the crankshaft running in a groove which gathers any oil passing the bearing and directs it to a drain hole whereby it returns to the crankcase. So, if your Clipper has the 245 Six or the 282 Eight, I'd take closer look at the leaking oil, chances are it's leaking from somewhere else and running towards the rear of the engine where you observe it.

bakerallen
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:42 pm

Re: oil leak

Post by bakerallen » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:04 am

I'm sorry I have taken so long to answer your first reply. The car is a 1947 Deluxe Clipper. It was titled Jan 29, 1947 so I imagine it was probably built in 1946. The serial number from the plate under the hood near the windshield on the left side is 2112 16405. The motor has a number stamped on the head near the water hose on the left side. That number is 367635. I haven't been under the car since I recently brought it home, but I think the oil is leaking from the drain hole in the heavy cover at the rear of the motor. I assumed the hole was there to take care of any overflow from the slinger. Do you have any thoughts about where the oil is coming from if not from the drain the slinger is designed to handle. I now also have another problem. It is not as serious as the oil leak, and I think I can handle that. The speedometer had not been working, but recently it started to show a speed reading which is probably wrong, and is making a awful noise. My hope is that a little oil will take care of that. Do you have any thoughts about that? Thank you for your interest.

bakerallen
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:42 pm

Re: oil leak

Post by bakerallen » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:17 am

This is an addition to my earlier post. The seal the mechanic replaced several times is the rope like seal at the end of the crankshaft. It is hard to find someone to work on these old cars. After some searching I found this fellow who seemed to know what he was doing. I know this is not the first motor he has rebuilt, because I have seen one or two he has worked on. I think the problem is that this is the first Packard he has ever repaired and he is not familiar with the motor, although it seem any motor from the era should be similar to this one. The reason he replaced the seal at the end of the crank was that he felt the rope like seal was being forced into the drain hole and not letting the oil flow back into the crank case. Does that seem reasonable to you? Is it possible he is installing the seal incorrectly?

Dave Czirr
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Re: oil leak

Post by Dave Czirr » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:40 am

I'm a little confused. Based on your vehicle number your car is a Deluxe 8 which has the 282 cubic inch motor. This motor DID NOT have a rope-type rear seal, only a slinger running in a groove with an oil return hole at the bottom. Perhaps your mechanic is trying to force a rope seal into a space where none belongs? If so he's just plugging the oil return. Also a bit confused by your motor number, the numbers for the 2111 chassis numbers ran from F300001 to F332010. Not only is your number out of this range, the prefix letter is missing - want to take a closer look? The prefix "F" designates a 1946/47 21st Series motor.

Speedometer cable lubrication is just basic maintenance. You can pull the cable from above, check for kinks or other damage, clean, and relube and reinstall. Do not lube the last upper couple of inches or the lube could eventually work it's way into the mechanism and cause damage. For lube many folks use a very light grease like Lubriplate White Grease. I've seen folks just wipe it down with gear oil which seems to work as well. Graphited lubes seem to have their fans as well. I use white grease, it happens to be Pennzoil just because that's what I have on hand.

bakerallen
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:42 pm

Re: oil leak

Post by bakerallen » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:31 am

I'm becoming more confused all the time. On the side of the car it says Deluxe Clipper, or Clipper Deluxe. Without going to look at the car I can't remember which way it is. The serial number came from the plate on the drivers side just under the hood, near the windshield. I probably gave you the wrong motor number. I got it from the head on the end where the radiator hose connects. Facing the front of the car, the number would be just to the right of the hose connection on the head. Where should I look for the proper number? I'm also confused about the size of the motor. Were there more that two 8 cylinder motors for 1946/1947? I thought there was a 6 cylinder and two 8 cylinder motors. I understood the regular clippers like I have had the smaller 8 cylinder, and the larger cars had a 8 cylinder with something like 300 cubic inches. The rebuild kit came from Kanter, and I'm sure the rope seal was included in the kit. It's possible the mechanic did not remember whether there was a seal in the motor, or not, and because there was one in the kit assumed it should be used. If the rope seal does not belong in my motor, which motor was it used with? I will look for the motor number and If I find it before you reply, I will send it. Again, thank you for your patience and help.

Dave Czirr
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Re: oil leak

Post by Dave Czirr » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:17 am

There were 2 8-cylinder motors, the 282 cubic inch motor which originated as the 120 motor in 1935, and the 356 cubic inch motor which was introduced in 1940 as the successor to the V12. The 356 cubic inch motor, the one with 9 main bearings and hydraulic lifters, used a rope type rear seal. This motor was used in the Super Clipper and the Custom Super Clipper, they both were built on the 127" wheelbase, the smaller Eight and Six on the 120". In 1948 the 282 motor was replaced with a 288 which did use a rope rear seal.

The number on the cylinder head is simply a casting number, nothing to do with the motor number. Motor number is on the driver' side of the engine block.

bakerallen
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:42 pm

Re: oil leak

Post by bakerallen » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:41 pm

Your explanation is the first one I have heard that sounds correct. I can now see why the mechanic had so much trouble making the seal fit. It wasn't meant to be used in the first place. I assume if there was no seal on the bottom of the crank. then there would not be one on the top either. I have a shop manual which shows how to put the seal in place, but it covers multiple years, and makes no mention of the seal being unique to the 48 model. If I now understand the situation correctly all I need do is remove the seal(s) and the problem should be solved. I think the lower seal can be removed with the engine in the car. If there is a upper seal can it also be removed without taking the engine out? Again, I want to thank you for your help. This is the first time I have come close to understanding what is going on. This has been a long and frustrating process, but I think I may be beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel.

Dave Czirr
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Re: oil leak

Post by Dave Czirr » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:16 pm

There should be no reason to pull the engine to service the seal. At the very worst which I think highly unlikely you could loosen all the main bearing caps a tad which would allow the crank to drop enough to grasp and pull the upper piece out. If you can just grasp a bit of it the old Chinese finger torture toy might be able to pull it thru.

A good resource for older cars is "Motor's Manual", pretty much the standard and universal multimake reference for auto mechanics, I refer to it quite regularly for service information; its very clear about the rear seal differences between years and motors.

bakerallen
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:42 pm

Re: oil leak

Post by bakerallen » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:45 pm

Once again thanks for the quick reply. I have the Packard shop manual, but it covers a lot of years and is not very specific. I will get a Motors Manual. Is that something that is easily available, and where would I go to look for it. Also, are there specific manuals for certain years and makes. The heater in my shop has quit working, and I really hate cold weather, so for the next few days I won't be doing anything with the car until I can get some heat.

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