Carburetor or - and key starter possible?

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Davesautoshop
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:25 am

Carburetor or - and key starter possible?

Post by Davesautoshop » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:08 am

hi guys,

have a 54 clipper with carb starter but would also like to use the ignition lock to start. the ignition lock has the start function, but it is even possible to connect it electrically.

Best regards
Dave from Germany

Howard56
Posts: 1323
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am

Re: Carburetor or - and key starter possible?

Post by Howard56 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:27 am

Th stock 54 Clipper would have had key start so if your car has pedal start then most likely someone found a reason for changing it back. 54 ignition switch failures and the fact that particular switch was a one year only item and possibly hard to find after Packard went away is a possibility. 49-53 switches also fit the dash and were probably much easier to find. Most would have just added a push button to the older ignition switch so changing the carb to the accelerator start is a bit extreme.

You can add an ignition switch start. All you would need to do is obtain an ignition switch with the start position and run another wire from the start terminal on the ignition switch out to the carb switch. Place the added wire on the carb switch being sure it is on the same terminal as the wire currently going to the solenoid. Since the other wire on the carb switch is already coming from the ign switch it is powered from the same spot so all you would be doing is paralleling the switches. If you wanted you could disconnect that feed wire on the carb switc and tape it up to prevent any possibility of both switches working at once.

Some of the wiring diagrams on this site are incomplete so without checking to make sure which ones, I would suggest you go to www.packardinfo.com and download the wiring diagrams for the 53 and 54 models to compare the two. Wiring diagrams are found in the literature archive accessed from the left menu. On the literature page they are in the wiring diagrams and radio sheets category.

Davesautoshop
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Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:25 am

Re: Carburetor or - and key starter possible?

Post by Davesautoshop » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:02 am

Thank you for your answer

I have already installed the ignition switch with start position. but thought you could both connect it so that you can use both systems safely

Howard56
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Re: Carburetor or - and key starter possible?

Post by Howard56 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:41 am

You can use them both safely under most circumstances. The issue with that switch combination would be if by some fate the operator decided to pump the gas during a start using the ignition switch and the engine started. Before vacuum could disable the carb switch it was activated just after the ign key signal was released. That could result in a holdover condition where the solenoid got a double signal in quick order and engaged again which conceivably could force the pinion into the flywheel or jam the Bendix. Granted the given scenario would not be very likely but I learned long ago to never say never.

Davesautoshop
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Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:25 am

Re: Carburetor or - and key starter possible?

Post by Davesautoshop » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:28 am

ok, very good .... now i only see one problem. but if you put the additional cable from the ignition lock (start position) directly to the carburetor switch, will i bypass the gear switch?

Howard56
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Re: Carburetor or - and key starter possible?

Post by Howard56 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:08 am

That does throw a new wrinkle. I was working under the impression it was a standard trans but if an Ultramatic, those years had the safety switch on the transmission so that involves a bit of extra thought because it will not be a simple paralleling. Not knowing what is in the car as far as stock wiring after the change from key start is another question. We are definitely talking a 54 production car with a vehicle number on the door pillar of 54XX-XXXX and not a 53 or earlier model that was sold in 54 and registered as such?? Back then some states did register cars by year sold and that registration paperwork identifying the car by an incorrect year has caused grief for others.

As you can see from the diagrams the neutral safety switch is the first thing in line after the ignition switch so bypassing it will not be a simple matter with stock wiring while keeping both switches active. Probably the simplest way to get both working would be to wire so the safety switch first gets power as a stock 53 (26th series) and add a relay on the output side which is also operated by the safety switch. The stock arrangement would protect the carb start and the added relay Normally Open contacts would then be inserted in the new wire from the ign switch start signal so wire would only be continuous when the relay is energized and contacts closed with trans is in park or neutral. That approach would depend on what wiring is present now and how things are currently connected.
Attachments
Ultra safety switch.jpg
Last edited by Howard56 on Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Davesautoshop
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:25 am

Re: Carburetor or - and key starter possible?

Post by Davesautoshop » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:52 am

currently the wiring is as in the figure above. thank you very much for the great arrangement

Davesautoshop
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:25 am

Re: Carburetor or - and key starter possible?

Post by Davesautoshop » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:18 pm

and yes, we are talking about a series 54 with the matching number 54XX. however, the following occurs to me. When I got the car, the key switch was clamped to the solenoid via the gearbox. but had also mounted the switch on the carburetor. I had clamped it to the carburetor during the restoration because I think this function is simply great. now the task of being able to do both, also did not know the original only one option was possible at that time.

Carrozzeria
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Re: location of starter switch

Post by Carrozzeria » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:37 am

I have a 53 Clipper 288, where is the starter switch on the 2barrel carburetor and how do you diagnose if it's working. Reason being engine won't start, c

Dave Czirr
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Location: New Jersey

Re: Carburetor or - and key starter possible?

Post by Dave Czirr » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:15 am

Answered on your other post about the starter switch.

But just to clarify, do you mean the engine cranks over but won't start, or doesn't crank over?

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