no data plate

Queries about model and year identification, engine and vehicle numbers, etc.
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flyingk15
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:19 am

no data plate

Post by flyingk15 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:46 am

Hello all, I recently acquired a 37 1500 senior which has no data plate. I was able to get the car titled using the theft proof number. Does anyone know if I can get more info on the car based on that number and would anyone know where to find a replacement data plate?

Thanks, Ron

flackmaster
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:12 am

Re: no data plate

Post by flackmaster » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:00 pm

I have an original data plate that may be appropriate from a car I parted out a while back, body style 1003. Your style?

Dave Czirr
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Location: New Jersey

Re: no data plate

Post by Dave Czirr » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:32 pm

Once the patent plate with the vehicle number is gone, your only realistic chance of recovering the original number is through knowledge or documents passed along from prior owners, there is no other record of the VN on the car itself. That said, there is a very remote possibility that someone (like myself) who has been collecting theft proof number data on cars might have a record of your car in the few surviving records of original sales from just a handful of dealers. Send me your theft proof number and I'll take a look but don't get optimistic, chances are about 1 in 15,000.

1935Packard
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 7:28 pm

Re: no data plate

Post by 1935Packard » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:40 pm

Interesting question. On my mostly original 12th series twelve coupe-roadster, I have found the vehicle number in a few places beyond the data plate. First, it is chalked into the wood on both doors (when you remove the leather covering the door on the inside). I also found the vehicle number stamped on some of the original dashboard trim when I removed it to have it woodgrained. In particular, I recall it on the trim piece at the top of the dashboard just below the windshield. Here's what it looks like on the wood in the door:
Screen Shot 2018-11-22 at 6.34.36 PM.png
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I don't know if any of this is relevant to a 15th series car, though. As I understand things, the 12th series open cars were still being bodied at the time on contract for Packard by Murray (under the Dietrich name, if I recall correctly). Maybe the additional vehicle numbers are specific to that? I don't know. And if Dave Czirr says that your car only had the vehicle number on the patent plate, I'm going to bet he's right because he knows way more than I do. ;)

Dave Czirr
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Location: New Jersey

Re: no data plate

Post by Dave Czirr » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:52 am

1935Packard raises a good point and I may have jumped the gun a bit; though I've never seen it, it's possible the VN might be noted on some of the wooden components of the door and seat structure especially. Worth taking a look and let us know what you find.

1935Packard
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 7:28 pm

Re: no data plate

Post by 1935Packard » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:20 pm

One more data point: In this 2012 auction description for a restored 1937 Packard coupe-roadster, the description states that the original data plate was not on the car at the time of restoration but that restorer Chris Charlton was able to find the number: "When Mr. Charlton restored this example, he found all the bodywork to be intact and original, locating the proper body number “238” in several places.... "

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/sj12 ... e-roadster

Bluedevil
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:07 am

Re: no data plate

Post by Bluedevil » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:08 am

I don't know if it applies, but I found numerous numbers that could be decoded on my 1938, 1608. Back of front kick panels, back of door panels, seat back, etc.. Numbers went like 34 for the model and XX for the sequence. So 34 XX was what I found. For 38 you then have to add 11 to the 34 to get 1134 and the XX which you add 20 to get 20xx or 1134-20XX once decoded. That matched up with the engine number range. My roster master was of great help on this.

My guess is that they assembled some of the interior components separate from the car and wrote the numbers on the panels in caulk to they could match them to the body/chassis being produced.

Dave Czirr
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Posts: 4967
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Location: New Jersey

Re: no data plate

Post by Dave Czirr » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:53 am

That all sounds logical, nice detective work!

But chalk, not caulk?

Bluedevil
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:07 am

Re: no data plate

Post by Bluedevil » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:50 am

I hate spell checkers.

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